That's ok Todd. Sorry about calling you "Appal", but I couldn't remember your name. Say you had 20,000 houses with 200 watt rotors running to capacity for 24 hours. They would collectively reduce the grid load by 4MW, and the energy reduced would be 167kWh (for one day). To add to this, if they were fairly inexpensive, a lot of people would do it if they saw a few dollars off their bill every month. There would also be people in rural areas realizing that there is no reason why they can't install a larger rotor and reduce their electric bill by even more. I firmly believe any marketing for such a device has to be based on the money savings. Yes, there are people who find conservation to be a good thing, but there is a difference between us and someone who will only work for money. -Martin Klingensmith
On Wed, 2004-01-07 at 09:06, Appal Energy wrote: > Sorry Martin and Hakan, > > I'm afraid that I only skimmed through the page and the posts. When Hakan > mentioned a void in the industry in the 150-200 watt range I "disconnected" > and automatically presumed the void in the 150-200 kW range. > > I guess I just didn't grasp the concept of a half dozen or more anemometers > on a single housetop or a rationale for why. Most houses "need" 400 watts > and higher just to wake up and keep one eyelid propped open. > > My error...at least twice over. > > Todd Swearingen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 1:55 AM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine > > > > "Appal", > > Read the article he wrote about it, he was talking about 150-200 watt > > turbines. > > -Martin Klingensmith > > > > On Wed, 2004-01-07 at 00:05, Appal Energy wrote: > > > Sorry Hakan. > > > > > > If you were to ask me? I'd say it can't be done quite the way you would > > > wish. > > > > > > Whether you choose vertical or horizontal axis turbines, the height of > the > > > foils themselves would preclude "roof mount" once you get past two or > three > > > horsepower - 1.5 to 2 kW. Even then the degree of elevation needed for > foil > > > clearance would require a micro-tower structure on top of a stable roof > > > system and the roof would have to be at something akin to a summit to > begin > > > with. In all probability more advantageous to separate the housing unit > from > > > the elevating tower once you get beyond a few hundred watts. > > > > > > If you were in the 50 kW range, I would say that you could reduce your > costs > > > by building your own tower, presuming you had an engineer and welder who > > > didn't mind working for chips and beer on weekends. With a bit 'o luck > you > > > could trade a keg or two of Sven's Black Powder Porter to the owner of > the > > > crane company to help you get the tower and turbine vertical. > > > > > > 'Course, you better make sure that the crane company owner is someone > you > > > can tolerate for the next 50 years, 'cause he's gonna' be around every > other > > > weekend to admire his handiwork and swill more beer. > > > > > > Beyond 50 kW? You're speaking of some reasonably serious industrial > > > construction. While 200 kW sized units are few and far between, the > > > technology and mechanics aren't a great deal different from a 600 kW or > 1.5 > > > mW unit. > > > > > > 200 kW is a boatload of output. You're speaking of powering a small > > > subdivision or the residential side of a small but posh ski resort. > > > > > > Me thinks that if one is considering a scale of ~200kW, it's time to > call > > > your in-law banker and a few others with not necessarily too deep > pockets > > > who are looking for a way to shelter their money from depreciation. > Perhaps > > > by the time they down the third gin and tonic they might even be > thinking on > > > the scale of megawatt? > > > > > > Only so much you can do on a cobbler's budget. > > > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 10:31 PM > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] VW-turbine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Todd and Robert, > > > > > > > > Please read my article, I am looking for 150 to 200 watt turbines at a > > > very > > > > low price, that can be mounted on a villa roof in an urban area. -:) > > > > > > > > Sorry if I was not clear, it is difficult to explain. > > > > > > > > Hakan > > > > > > > > > > > > At 04:10 07/01/2004, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >Appal Energy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hakan, > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are a couple of continental options. The 50 kw is not in > > > > > > production > > > > > > yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bergey.com/excel.html>http://www.bergey.com/excel.html > > > > > > http://www.bergey.com/Products/XL50.html > > > > > > <http://www.bergey.com/>http://www.bergey.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > They've been in commercial production for close nigh to > twenty-five > > > > > > years. > > > > > > > > > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Bergeys are very robust machines. Their longevity in > business > > > > >is a tribute to their quality, and if I could afford one, I'd own > one! > > > > >Interestingly, however, I remember an article several years ago (I > think > > > > >it was in Home Power, if I'm not mistaken) in which the Bergeys were > > > > >criticized for producing less power than was claimed by the > > > > >manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > Here are some additional small turbine links, if anyone is > > > > >interested: > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.windenergy.com/>http://www.windenergy.com/ > > > > > > > > > > http://www.wvt.de/englisch/html/energie_1.htm (This one > looks > > > > >really cool!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ><http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/windpower.html>http://www.hydrogenapplia > > > nces.com/windpower.html > > > > >(Beware--their > > > > >address is a mail box only!) > > > > > > > > > > Have fun! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >robert luis rabello > > > > >"The Edge of Justice" > > > > >Adventure for Your Mind > > > > > > > > ><http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782>http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/978 > > > 2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > > > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
