- hmmmmm. very strange, totally unexpected. but the matter seems to have settled itself... literally,, the soy finally stratified...-looks like good separation.. took a lot longer though ..this was new soy oil. anyone have experience with lecithin? will it turn to biodiesel? thanks for your input... Marc
- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mr. Cardoso, > > None too sure as to the why of your previous problems. They've never > happened here, where the cleaner oils are primarily soy and hydrogenated soy > and the dirtier oils combinations of both and animal fats. > > Canola isn't predominant in this region. > > Todd Swearingen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marc Orion Cardoso" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:58 PM > Subject: [biofuel] Re: oil from algae... > > > > - > > > > Thank you for your reply ... yes that is what im referring to,I can > > throw a vacuum on my column and bring the temp down well below > > boiling.. just trying to cut down on dwell time.. thanks again for > > your quick reply.. any clue as to why I had trouble with the soy oil > > whereas the canola did so nicely?? (referring to the prior questions > > that went unanswered) > > thanks again > > Marc..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Mr. Cardoso, > > > > > > It is presumed that the "water-methanol mix" that you are > > referring to is > > > the microscopic residue after the washing stages are completed, as > > there is > > > no water in the biodiesel prior to washing. > > > > > > If that's the case, you'll find that there is no need to elevate > > the temp > > > much above 120*F in order to get the the microscopic water droplets > > to > > > coalesce and fall out. > > > > > > Going beyond the 120* range and trying to distill the water out > > would > > > generate a needless expenditure of fuel and the high heat - > > somewhere in the > > > realm of 230* F - would begin to degrade the fuel unnecessarily. > > > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Marc Orion Cardoso" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 2:39 PM > > > Subject: [biofuel] Re: oil from algae... > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Hello All, > > > > I asked some questions in my last post but didnt get any answers > > but > > > > Ill ask another one anyway and maybe someone will answer it. > > > > Im assuming that when the unwashed biodiesel stratifies, that > > pretty > > > > much all the Glycerine-methanol and soap has settled beneath the > > > > biodiesel and that can be decanted. > > > > The washing process to meet astm seems to take up a long > > time .. Is > > > > it feasable to distill the water-methanol mix out of the biodiesel > > > > rather than wait for it to separate and stratify?? or will trace > > > > elements of soap screw things up..?...any thoughts on this??? > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Orion Cardoso" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > - > > > > > thanks for your good wishes, so far Ive had really good > > results > > > > > with four consecutive litre batches of new canola oil using > > the > > > > > usual 200 ml methanol and 3.5 grams of lye, agitating it for > > > > fifteen > > > > > minutes with great results, a brandy coloured layer of > > glycerin > > > > > and a layer of soap with the rest being fairly clear biodiesel, > > > > but > > > > > yesterday afternoon I used wesson brand soybean oil (new) and > > found > > > > a > > > > > clear layer at the bottom about 1/4 inch deep and the rest of > > the > > > > > oil is cloudy it just doesnt seem to be a complete reaction. can > > > > you > > > > > tell me why the canola worked and the soy didnt seem to? > > > > > MARC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Hello Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > Glad you've passed the first hurdles with making biodiesel, > > good > > > > > for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the information, and please do keep us informed of > > > > your > > > > > > progress, especially with extracting oil from the algae for > > > > > biodiesel. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > Keith > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kieth and lowell. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have been growing algae of various types for a good > > number of > > > > > > >years starting with Spirulina as a food and then venturing > > into > > > > > > >algaes suitable for lipid production.. First we had to learn > > to > > > > > grow > > > > > > >algae and came to the level of designing a closed loop system > > > > that > > > > > > >would allow the production of algaes under a broad range of > > > > > climatic > > > > > > >and geographic conditions ....in that, we succeeded... we > > have > > > > > been > > > > > > >growing dunaliela and butyrococcus with success in our > > research > > > > > pond > > > > > > >here at ecogenics center.. although we have been producing > > > > ethanol > > > > > > >and methane for many many years and were well aware of the > > > > > potential > > > > > > >of algae for the production of lipids (oils) for biodiesel. > > we > > > > had > > > > > > >not, untill very recently ,actually produced biodiesel.. we > > > > have > > > > > now > > > > > > >reached that goal with a fair amount of consistancy and are > > now > > > > > > >prepared to enter a new phase in our development program... > > that > > > > > > >is.. the extraction of oil from our algaes and the consequent > > > > > > >production of biodiesel from the resulting oils. we are soon > > > > > > >embarking on a program of study involving extraction > > techniques > > > > and > > > > > > >after that will undertake the necessary steps to make > > biodiesel > > > > > from > > > > > > >those oils.We are taking very cautious baby steps towards > > that > > > > > > >goal.financial constraints have made it prudent to go > > slowly and > > > > > > >deliberatly in all our endeavours one look at our website and > > > > one > > > > > can > > > > > > >see that we have touched upon many areas of R&D over the > > > > years.we > > > > > > >expect that with some wise investment of time and money we > > will > > > > > > >successfully adress the extraction and production phase of > > the > > > > > algae > > > > > > >to biodiesel program..we will of course keep you posted as > > to our > > > > > > >progress....in the meantime we are ready to produce biodiesel > > > > from > > > > > > >wvo...we have made the necessary modifications to our > > distillery > > > > so > > > > > > >we can do this... > > > > > > > Marc... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Lowell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >A lot of lit on this subject during 1980s. Search > > on "NTIS" > > > > > which > > > > > > >is U.S. > > > > > > > > >gov repository for gov funded research. The critters you > > > > want > > > > > info > > > > > > >on are > > > > > > > > >called "Microalgae" not algae and they produce Lipids" > > which > > > > > you > > > > > > >and I call > > > > > > > > >"oil". If you want info about getting the oil out of the > > > > > > >microalgae search > > > > > > > > >on the net for "Lipid Extraction". Most of NTIS research > > on > > > > > this > > > > > > >is under > > > > > > > > >program called "Aquatic Species Program". Try to get 1987 > > > > and > > > > > 1985 > > > > > > >reports. > > > > > > > > >Each report cost me at least $30 to $60. Solar Energy > > > > > Institute in > > > > > > >Golden > > > > > > > > >CO. published a neat small report in 1985 called Fuel > > > > options > > > > > from > > > > > > > > >Microalgae dated July 1984. If you get into this you will > > > > need > > > > > to > > > > > > >buy quite > > > > > > > > >a few chemicals, some common like Epsom Salt, baking soda > > > > and > > > > > some > > > > > > >pretty > > > > > > > > >exotic. If you want to look at "houses" for your critters > > > > > search > > > > > > >on the net > > > > > > > > >for "photobioreactor" . Tried this once and failed. Also > > > > wife > > > > > and > > > > > > >daughters > > > > > > > > >saw no humor in growing "pond scum" in the house. May try > > > > this > > > > > one > > > > > > >day when > > > > > > > > >I get some space out of the house but am more interested > > in > > > > > > >finding cheap > > > > > > > > >sources of oil seeds. Hope this helps. Good luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're not the first to reach that conclusion. Previously > > a > > > > list > > > > > > > > member set up ponds and so on and was going ahead full- > > steam > > > > > but we > > > > > > > > never heard any more about it. Another list member > > researched > > > > > the > > > > > > > > subject, he had good technical resources, and concluded > > that > > > > > it's a > > > > > > > > waste of time right now, it just isn't there yet, at least > > > > not > > > > > at a > > > > > > > > doable small-scale level. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc Carduso of Ecogenics has posted several upbeat > > messages > > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > > > subject in the last few weeks. He's talked of "Algae > > > > production > > > > > for > > > > > > > > food fuel and fertiliser", "algaeculture technology for > > oil > > > > > > > > production and algae based " Living fuel cell" > > technology", > > > > and > > > > > > > > referred list members to his website for further > > information. > > > > > > > > www.dabney.com/ecogenics/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't find much information there, maybe I should have > > > > looked > > > > > > > > harder. I saw some photographs that looked to me like > > water > > > > > > >hyacinth > > > > > > > > and duckweed, nice for greywater/blackwater treatment > > > > systems. I > > > > > > > > guess there's something I'm missing. I'm not being > > sceptical, > > > > > just > > > > > > > > need more info I think. What's not clear to me is whether > > > > Marc > > > > > has > > > > > > > > actually succeeded in producing lipids from algae in > > usable > > > > form > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > quantity. When last we heard Marc hadn't made any > > biodiesel > > > > yet > > > > > but > > > > > > > > would be doing so soon. I don't know if Marc has made yet > > > > > biodiesel > > > > > > > > from algae lipids. Can you tell us a bit more Marc? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, personally I take your view Lowell, cheap > > sources > > > > of > > > > > oil > > > > > > > > seeds are more interesting. There's huge and very largely > > > > > > >unexplored > > > > > > > > potential in oil-bearing plants, as well as in productive > > and > > > > > > > > efficient ways of producing them. For instance, a quick > > > > search > > > > > of > > > > > > > > James Duke's Handbook of Energy Crops finds 62 legumes, > > both > > > > > plants > > > > > > > > and trees, either of which can be fitted to the cropping > > and > > > > > > >growing > > > > > > > > patterns on integrated sutainable farms in a variety of > > ways, > > > > > > >perhaps > > > > > > > > as cover crops, interplanted or undersown, for forage or > > green > > > > > > > > manure, earning their keep independently of their oil > > > > potential, > > > > > > > > which would come as a bonus produced without the dedicated > > > > use > > > > > of > > > > > > >of > > > > > > > > any land, or time and labour. Trees can be even more > > > > > interesting. > > > > > > > > That's just some of the legumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/dukeindex.html > > > > > > > > Handbook of Energy Crops Index > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keith > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Lowell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>From: "balaji" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > >>Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > >>To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > >>Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: oil from algae... > > > > > > > > >>Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 19:48:23 +0530 > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>Hi all, > > > > > > > > >>So am I. > > > > > > > > >>Balaji, > > > > > > > > >>Chennai, TN, India > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > >>From: "Pieter Koole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > >>To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > >>Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 1:26 AM > > > > > > > > >>Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: oil from algae... > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I am interested as well. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > Met vriendelijke groet, > > > > > > > > >> > Pieter Koole > > > > > > > > >> > Netherlands. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > The information contained in this message (including > > > > > > >attachments) is > > > > > > > > >> > confidential, and is intended for the addressee (s) > > > > > > > > >> > only. If you have received this message in error > > please > > > > > delete > > > > > > >it and > > > > > > > > >> > notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized > > use, > > > > > > >disclosure, > > > > > > > > >> > copying or alteration of this message is strictly > > > > > forbidden. > > > > > > >We will not > > > > > > > > >>be > > > > > > > > >> > liable for direct, special, indirect or > > > > > > > > >> > consequential damages arising from alteration of the > > > > > contents > > > > > > >of this > > > > > > > > >> > message by a third party or in case of electronic > > > > > > >communications as a > > > > > > > > >>result > > > > > > > > >> > of any virus being passed on. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > >> > From: "wwschnabel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > >> > To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > >> > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 4:42 AM > > > > > > > > >> > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: oil from algae... > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > I asked a while ago if anyone had any info on Oil > > from > > > > > algae. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > What I would like to do is an experiment. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > Does anyone have any info on how exactly to extract > > > > the > > > > > oil > > > > > > >from > > > > > > > > >>algae? > > > > > > > > >> > Could I do it in a home lab? > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! 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