ftr, 1 Jn 5, in either KJV or NIV (but in the
NIV, as follows), teaches that the only perfect one is JC
himself--among us humans there is no one perfect but God
Evidence:
1Jn.5:16ff.: If any man see his
brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask [God], and [God]
shall give him life..We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he
that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him
not.
the Ap. John is reconciled to the fact that
'brothers' sin, but like the Ap. Paul in Gal 6:1, he teaches us to deal with
that brother gently; why(?)--because at some point the bro in need of gentleness
may be him or you and he probably heard JC teach us directly to 'do unto
others as you'd have them do unto you'
this is reinforced by 'whosoever is born of
God', above, which is relatively clear even in KJV language: it is none
other than JC himself!
As DR. GT points out, below, the NIV language
simply clarifies (does not contradict) this passage as a whole(which is not
intentionally obfuscated in/by KJV linguistics, but is less clear than it oughta
be due, in part, to the Shakespearean 'whosoever' restated improperly when it
had been employed earlier in the passage to refer to church members, not to JC
himself)
In sum, the Ap. John teaches us that
Christ himself is the perfect one, but does not teach the
perfection/ism of those 'in Christ' (now); (but) those 'in Christ' do
have the profound obligation to follow Christ in all details of 'life'
(in the Johannine sense), including to follow JC in our dealing/s
with sin/ners among us: "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" is
serious contemporary business--not set aside to the future coming Kingdom; and,
the Ap. John's teaching squares with (e.g.) Isaiah's
preaching/foretelling of the love of God 'in Christ' which runs counter to the
asceticism of both the Jews and the Greeks (i.e., the world-view/influence
of, e.g., Plato) g
for reference:
Isaiah 64
"All of us have become like one who
is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all
shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us
away...Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter;
we are all the work of your hand...O LORD; do not remember our sins
forever..."
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:55:06 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hold on a minute. I am not IMPLYING anything. I AM STATING IT EMPHATICALLY; end of sentence. This is where the NIV clears up the KJV. All this talk is empty in view of these verses.
1 John 3:6. "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning".
The latter verse (5:18) should be understood in light of the earlier verse (3:6). IN ANY CASE, the 2 verses are not contradicting each other. So out with the perfect people.
John is not claiming sinless perfection (1:8-10; 2:1), but explaining that the believer's life is characterized not by sin but by doing what is right.
David, if anyone claims they are without sin, they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them. 1 John 1:8. All this talk is useless to me. I stand on 1 John 1:8.
1 John 5:18. "We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin..."I realize that there are theologians and philosophers and gurus of the Bible
that try to explain away this simple passage, but it can't be done. Glenn
has implied in the past that this means "continues to sin" as in "habitually
sinning." He evidently is repeating what he has read in other books. But
this idea is not in this particular verse. The case MIGHT be made for some
similar verses in 1 John 3, but not for this verse in 1 John 5:18.
