--- Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sorry - I forgot to send this message to the list as > well as Bill. I'm > always doing that. > > Monica
that being the case, i'd like to send my reply to the list as well as monica because i think it's funny: thank you for your reply - very detailed. sounds like a word for all seasons. shortly after we moved here i remember talking with an italian woman about the relative smallness - compared to english - of the standard italian dictionary. she went on to complain about the english language by saying how narrow it was; how every word has just one meaning - "whereas..." she concluded with an expansive, all encompassing hand gesture "in italian .." i'll put the question to my charango buddies and see what they have to say. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: bill kilpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 6:38 AM > Subject: Re: vihuelina > > > > This came up some time ago on Lutenet. This is the > message which a Spanish > > speaking member sent us - > > > > Dear Stewart, Monica, and all, > > > > This is an answer to your question about how the > spanish word "bordón" > > came to have the meaning of a pilgrim´s staff. > > > > But first let me enlarge the two meanings Monica > Hall mentions, after > > consulting three very comprehensive spanish > dictionaries: > > - Seco / Andrés / Ramos : Diccionario del español > actual. Madrid 1999. > > - María Moliner : Diccionario de uso del español. > Madrid 1986. > > - Corominas / Pascual : Diccionario crítico > etimológico castellano e > > hispánico. Madrid 1980. > > > > 1. Stick with a size bigger than a man's height. > > 2. Word or phrase which is, because of a bad > habit, unnecesarily > > repeated again and again. > > 3. That fixed group of verses or stanza (the > refrain) that is repeated > > in a song: A, refrain, B, refrain, C, refrain, D. > > 4a. Low accompaniment sound. > > 4b. In a string instrument, thick string with a > low pitch. > > 5. Gut string placed diametrically under the lower > plane of a drum. > > 6. Word referred to things with a cord or lace > shape. For instance, the > > uppermost line of tiles where the two slopes of a > roof converge. > > 7. Gut string for holding open a conduit (med). > > 8. The omission a typesetter makes when composing > a text (print). > > > > There is also a very interesting meaning under > "bordonear", the related > > verb which means "buzzing", the sound big insects > make when flying. This > > meaning of "bordonear" is: refraining from > working, being lazy ! > > > > Now let's go to the etimology and the history of > the meaning: > > > > María Moliner: The origin of "bordón" is possibly > in "bohordo", derived > > from germanic "huerde", enclosure. > > "Bohordo" means a short spear, but also a certain > type of stalk or stem, > > for instance like the one the lily has. > > > > Joan Corominas: The latin word "burdo" (mule) took > the meaning of > > sustainer, therefore "bordón" means stick, and > also spear. > > > > In any case, nowadays in Spain, and without > consulting dictionaries, > > "bordón" refears to the three thicker strings in > the guitar (E, A, d). > > > > Best regards, > > > > Manolo Laguillo > > Barcelona > > > > As you can see it can mean a lot of things! It > doesn't tell us when it > > first came into use though. In some contexts it > might mean a drone, > > something which is repeated over and over again, > but if Mudarra's phrase > is > > translated "it has to have a drone on the fourth > course" this would mean > > that it had to have a string which sounded the > same pitch constantly > > throughout the piece, not that it was tuned a > fifth below the 3rd course. > > > > Covarrubias' dictionary is regarded as > authoritative for the 16th century. > > There may be other dictionaries closer to Mudarra > but I don't have these > to > > hand. > > > > Incidentally Nicolas Doisi de Velasco refers to > bordones on the guitar in > > 1640 some 30 years before Sanz. He says "it is > better to string it with > > bourdons than without". > > > > Best wishes > > > > Monica > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: bill kilpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Lex Eisenhardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Monica > Hall > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: vihuela <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 12:10 PM > > Subject: Re: vihuelina > > > > > > > > > > --- Lex Eisenhardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Why is this important? Mudarra's remark would > be by > > > > far the earliest > > > > reference to a guitar in re-entrant tuning. > Bermudo > > > > discusses the high > > > > strings that accompany the usual (?) low ones. > > > > Mudarra would be the first to > > > > do the opposite. > > > > > > placing its intended meaning aside for the > moment, > > > what's the earliest documented use of the word > > > "bordon?" where did it come from - which > language? > > > not speaking spanish, i have to ask if "cuerda > con > > > octava" or something similar - like "strings > that > > > accompany the usual (?) low ones" quoted above - > was > > > ever mentioned prior to the use of the word > "bordon?" > > > > > > > > > couldn't find anything in my latin dictionary to > link > > > it to border in the sense of limit but if > "border" is > > > implied i imagine it means adjacent or adjoin. > > > > > > - bill > > > > > > "and thus i made...a small vihuela from the > shell of a creepy > crawly..." - > > Don Gonzalo de Guerrero (1512), "Historias de la > Conquista del Mayab" by > Fra > > Joseph of San Buenaventura. go to: > > http://www.charango.cl/paginas/quieninvento.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > Yahoo! Messenger - want a free and easy way to > contact your friends > > online? http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
