Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:

If they are claiming to have working all-permanent-magnet motors, then either they're lying, or it's the Dawn of a New Era. You can't be confused about whether you have something or not, and a motor with *no* internal power source is not something you can "sort of" have, subject to interpretation -- you've either got it or you don't.

Well . . . as the Devil's advocate I would say you might have it for a while and then not have it later on. The motor might break inexplicably, after someone tries to improve it. Things like that often happen in cold fusion. The best known example is Mizuno's heat after death experiment. Granted, that is a very different phenomenon. It seems likely that it is much harder to make Mizuno's even happen a second time than it would be to make a second magnetic motor. Mizuno's 100 g cathode was cut up and destructively tested years ago.

People building revolutionary gadgets of this nature have a bad habit of destroying their prototypes, sometimes to re-use the parts, or sometimes just to make a bonfire to keep warm. (The Wright brothers used to burn their old gliders at Kitty Hawk, or give them to a women who used the cloth to make underwear. They almost burned the first powered airplane on December 17, 1903.)

Hoyt Stearns reports here that the people at Steorn find it easier to work with a machine that combines permanent magnets with electromagnets, because this makes modifying the prototype a snap. I gather that is what he means. That sounds plausible. They don't want to bother making a fully self-sustaining one after you have established they can do that, because by making partially self-sustaining prototypes they make more rapid progress, and learn more about the phenomenon.

I am not saying I believe that, but it is plausible.

It reminds me a little of the situation with airplanes from 1905 to 1908. The standard set by most wannabe aviators was that you had to get off the ground unassisted. This was spelled out in detail by Wilbur Wright in a paper: the airplane had to leave the ground on its own power, fly under control, and land at a spot at the same level or higher than the place where it took off. That was a reasonable standard, but the fact is, after the summer 1904 the Wrights did not bother to meet it. They used a catapult to launch the airplanes. You might say that was cheating, but it was safer and more convenient. The airplanes were severely underpowered and took a long mono-rail runway to get airborne. They had already proved they did not need a catapult, so they stopped worrying about that standard.

In August 1908, when Orville Wright got ready to fly in the first public demonstration in France, he and his assistants rolled out the airplane, and started to prepare the catapult to launch it. Some of the French aviators watching were angry and indignant, saying this is cheating. They kvetched and mocked him until he took off some minutes later. He leapt into the air and flew at high speed straight toward some trees. This would have killed any other aviator in the world, because no one else could control the aircraft. They could barely change course, by side-slipping in a dangerous and all-but-uncontrolled maneuver. They had no idea you have to change the shape of the wing and bank an airplane in order to turn. So the crowd gasped in horror, expecting to see Orville smash to smithereens at 40 mph in a moment. But Orville banked and flew neatly around the trees, came back to the starting point, and landed under perfect control. No aviator in Europe had ever done anything remotely like that. None even imagined it was possible. They instantly forgot about the catapult. The next day Orville was the most famous celebrity in Europe.

Along the same lines, suppose several people independently test the Steorn gadgets. They measure input and output by rigorous methods, and find out it really is over unity, but it turns out the D cell is contributing slightly by varying the magnet configuration on fly. It turns out that method is a lot easier and more reliable than using only permanent magnets. People will quickly overlook that. It will be a trivial matter. It will be obvious that a more complicated version of the gadget can eliminate the D cell by adding a generator, just as it was obvious in 1908 that Orville Wright could have used a longer monorail to take off without the catapult.

- Jed

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