> It is what it is. What’s more important, getting the bug fixed or bitching about customer service? > I always vote for doing whatever it takes to get bugs fixed.
Agreed! But I've found _nothing_ that works. Ever. I've jumped through all of the hoops down the year, it hasn't worked. My crashing bug with V16.0+ where I supplied a database to demonstrate the problem in about a minute? Nothing. No response, no action, no fix. I take exception to the notion that somehow our bugs aren't getting fixed because we're "not doing them right." Sure, that explains some of it. All of it? Not a chance. *It's not our fault.* You mentioned that it's not Tim Penner's job to take comments here and report bugs. Why not? In fact, Tim does just that a lot of times - which seems like good service from Tim and the US crew. I mean, it's crazy to think that somehow it's *our* fault that a bug isn't getting fixed even though 4D knows about it. It's their bug, not ours. I can't wait on bug fixes anyway. With their response times and release cycles, I need to fix a problem in an hour or a day - I can't wait six months to forever. If I can't use 4D for a task, I just don't. When I reported my crashing bug (with demo database), I did it for *their* sake. I figured "Hey, they're proud of preemptive mode and workers. Guess they'd like to know it can bring down the server." Not so much. I don't get that. In my case, I'm using a different architecture (an inferior one) as I can't rely on logging to disk from a worker. I used to report bugs and make feature requests a lot. I was one of the top submitters for some time. Then one day I realized out of hundreds (probably thousands) of reports, I'd gotten a couple of emails. Ever. I knew how to do a "proper" submission because I'd worked at 4D for four years in Tech support and then running IT in the USA. I couldn't get support for crashing servers *then*. And it was their business. But I definitely knew how to format a bug report. Down the years I've used bugs.4d.fr and more lately the Forums. Still, no change. No feedback, no fixes. Maybe it's just me? I'm not kidding about that. Neil reports a very different, and satisfactory-sounding, experience. Part of the problem is doubtlessly that as an Aussie developer, I don't have access to the bug system. But here is a little thought experiment. Imagine two different company's with different attitudes to bugs and quality. Let's call them Huey and Dewey. Huey is *passionate* about quality and customer service. They take is as a core part of the business to detect bugs before they reach customers, to improve their processes when a bug does slip through, to release fixes as soon as possible - even before customers know that there is a bug, and to do everything reasonable to help customers reporting a problem. They're constantly trying to improve their already substantial documentation. (I saw a company just like this last year, it was a thing of true beauty.) Dewy, well Dewey just doesn't know. They don't keep customers up to date, they add a lot of hassle between customers and problems, they don't actively look for non-critical bugs, they have no roadmap, they don't share their priorities or even logic, and they ignore problems that they are fully aware of. Many key features and behaviors are undocumented or underdocumented. What does 4D look more like? Huey or Dewy? ********************************************************************** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:[email protected] **********************************************************************
