Jamie, do you have objections? On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Brett Lewis <ble...@vfo-group.com> wrote:
> Hi, > > I have always thought of the placeholder more like a value for the edit > field rather than a name or description. > > However, I think the important thing is that we have a mechanism that > allows assistive technology to “know” that the place holder is present and > what the value of the placeholder is. > > Your suggestions accomplish that. > > Brett > > > > > > *Brett Lewis* > > *VFO* | Software Engineer > > 11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716 > > *T* 727-299-6270 > > ble...@vfo-group.com > > www.vfo-group.com > > > > > > *From:* Alexander Surkov [mailto:surkov.alexan...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 13, 2016 1:52 PM > *To:* Brett Lewis <ble...@vfo-group.com>; James Teh <ja...@nvaccess.org> > *Cc:* accessibility-...@lists.linux-foundation.org > *Subject:* Re: [Accessibility-ia2] HTML placeholder attribute > > > > Hi, Brett and all. > > There's some discrepancy in the specs between UIA and IAccessible2 > mappings. UIA column states [1] that HTML placeholder is mapped to > accessible name and description, while IAccessible2 column says HTML > placeholder has same mapping as aria-placeholder. aria-placeholder is > exposed it in AriaProperties [2] for UIA and as object attribute for > IAccessible2, the generic name computation doesn't mention aria-placeholder > [3]. > > Leaving aside the specs, in case of IAccessible2 Firefox does similar > things to UIA. Iirc we agreed [4] to expose placeholder as > name/description, because it requires zero adoption efforts from AT, and > since nobody claimed they need semantics of placeholder. > > If semantics loss is crucial for you, then I think we could fix it by > exposing HTML placeholder this way: > > * name and description as Firefox does (fix the spec to make it clear) > > * expose placeholder object attribute > > * do not expose explicit-name='true' object attribute if placeholder was > used as name > > > > aria-placeholder may be left with the current mapping. How does it sound? > > > [1] https://w3c.github.io/aria/html-aam/html-aam.html > [2] http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html > [3] https://w3c.github.io/aria/accname-aam/accname-aam.html > [4] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=545817 > > > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Brett Lewis <ble...@vfo-group.com> wrote: > > Hi All: > > I have been looking at how the HTML placeholder attribute is supported by > IA2. > > According to the HTML accessibility API mappings at: > https://www.w3.org/TR/html-aam-1.0/ > > The placeholder in HTML should be handled just like the aria-placeholder. > > According to the core api accessibility mappings > http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html > > The aria-placeholder is mapped to an Ia2 object attribute of placeholder. > > So, it sounds like the HTML placeholder should be mapped to an IA2 object > attribute of placeholder. > > Currently Firefox seems to support the placeholder as the name of the > field if there is no other name provided by the page author (from > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=545817. > > This seems to contradict the description of aria-placeholder from > > the WAI-ARIA) 1.1 spec at http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ > master/aria/aria.html#aria-placeholder > > Says: > > > > “[ARIA 1.1] Defines a short hint (a word or short phrase) intended to aid > the user with data entry when the control has no value. A hint could be a > sample value or a brief description of the expected format. > > > > Authors should not use aria-placeholder > > instead of a label as their purposes are different: The label indicates > what kind of information is expected. The placeholder text is a hint about > the > > expected value. See related aria-labelledby and aria-label. > > > > Authors should present this hint to the user by displaying the hint text > at any time the control's value is the empty string. This includes cases > where > > the control first receives focus, and when users remove a > previously-entered value. > > > > NOTE > > > > As is the case with the related HTML placeholder > > attribute, use of placeholder text as a replacement for a displayed label > can reduce the accessibility and usability of the control for a range of > users > > including older users and users with cognitive, mobility, fine motor skill > or vision impairments. While the hint given by the control's label is shown > > at all times, the short hint given in the placeholder attribute is only > shown before the user enters a value. Furthermore, placeholder text may be > mistaken for a pre-filled value, and as commonly implemented the default > color of the placeholder text provides insufficient contrast and the lack > of a separate visible label reduces the size of the hit region available > for setting focus on the control.” > > > > > > I am suggesting that we all agree to present the HTML placeholder just > like the aria-placeholder using the IA2 object attribute of placeholder? > > This provides the most flexibility for screenreaders to present the > placeholder information anyway they see fit. Using the placeholder as the > name is not as flexible as the screenreader cannot distinguish between the > placeholder and the label in this case. > > What does everyone think? > > Thanks, > > Brett > > > > > > *Brett Lewis* > > *VFO* | Software Engineer > > 11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716 > > *T* 727-299-6270 > > ble...@vfo-group.com > > www.vfo-group.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Accessibility-ia2 mailing list > Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 > > >
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