it is better to give clarity to the employer On 9/15/18, sadaf khan <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > I Second Kartik's opinion. > > While I have mentioned indirectly about my disability in my resume, at > the start of my career I mentioned that I am a 100% blind individual > in the telephonic round. What I observed then was that with the > mention of my disability an attitude was already formed which largely > conveyed to me that most of the firms are sadly not yet aware how > people with visual impairment function with assistive technology. > Considering the current sinario of the Indian society I was jobless > for a long time. while there are acceptions who when it comes to > awareness, most of them are the large corporate firms who for their > own CSR reasons higher people with disability. > > the technique that works very well with me is not mentioning anything > about the disability until the face to face round of interview. doing > this gives you an opportunity to demonstrate to the interviewer how > your disability doesn't come in your way of your capabilities. he/she > then has a outlook towards you which is free of attitudinal bariers. > > I also agree that the interviewer may not be able to ask questions > related to your disability since he doesn't know anything about it, to > resolve this I have a document made for myself which talks about the > major challenges faced by people with visual impairment and how we > overcome the same. to name a few, mobility, using computers/ mobiles > ETC. it has a brief description of all the assistive aids that I use > as well. the document helps answer most of the questions any > interviewer may have for us. > > > > On 9/14/18, Kartik Sawhney <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi Rahul, >> >> All of these points make complete sense. As I said before, there is no >> absolute correct answer here, and it'll be unfair to generalize. One >> needs to evaluate the pros and cons given a particular industry, >> company or opportunity. Just as how your experiences are completely >> different from Mine or Pranav's, there could be other factors that are >> not relevant to you or me, but might play an important role in this >> decision for someone else. I have been at a bunch of disclosure talks >> and webinars during university, and I like the way many organizations >> approach this discussion in the US. They break this down into "what", >> "when", "how" and "why" of disability disclosure (I probably messed up >> the order), and provide guidance on each of them. It is then up to the >> person to evaluate this given their unique circumstances. >> >> Best, >> >> On 9/14/18, Rahul Bajaj <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Hi Kartik and all, >>> >>> Kartik, I think we are in substantial agreement here. Both of us would >>> like >>> to be assessed solely by our qualifications and ability to get the job >>> done >>> and not be given additional brownie points for having a disability, just >>> as >>> we would not like to be discriminated against based on our disability. >>> >>> As one of the lawyers said in the meeting I referenced in the first >>> post, >>> we >>> would like to be assessed solely by the content of our character, as Dr. >>> King said. That is, however, not the case sometimes. This being so, the >>> question then is not if your disability will play a role but what role >>> it >>> will play. I think a better answer to that question is that, by taking >>> control of the situation by making a disclosure upfront, we can make >>> that >>> role positive. Your opinion is that its role can be addressed as and >>> when >>> it >>> naturally comes up in the selection process. >>> >>> Insofar as my assumption that people giving careful thought to this >>> issue >>> is >>> concerned, that is based on my own experience. More specifically, for a >>> couple of internships which I did and even in my job interview, since >>> they >>> knew I was blind beforehand, they were equipped to have a constructive >>> conversation which they would have perhaps not been if they didn't know >>> this >>> beforehand. In my job interview, for example, I was asked how I would >>> feel >>> about being asked to shift to a different vertical in the firm owing to >>> the >>> constraints flowing from my disability. I don't think such a thoughtful >>> question could have been formulated sans prior notice. >>> >>> In the meeting I had, the folks espousing the view that disclosure >>> should >>> not be made were saying that prior disclosure results in : (a) the >>> employer >>> trying to lay traps to not hire you due to objective factors and (b) >>> making >>> a palpable difference in how you are treated in the interview. Now, I >>> personally have never faced such treatment. However, it is certainly >>> conceivable. If a potential employer is biased against you in that way, >>> I >>> think the best approach is to make as strong and emphatic a case about: >>> (a) >>> howyour disability will not come in the way; (b) some of their concerns >>> are >>> unfounded and (c) you can help the workforce become more diverse, bring >>> to >>> the table valuable problem-solving skills and grit which your sighted >>> colleagues do not possess ( here I should mention that I am of the firm >>> view >>> that a blind person does possess these in a more substantial measure >>> than >>> their sighted counterparts because it is not as though they haven't >>> acquired >>> these skills through academic and other pursuits like their sighted >>> colleagues. They have, and on top of that they have acquired the skills >>> flowing from grappling with an objective impairment which their sighted >>> colleagues have not, but perhaps those similarly disadvantaged, like >>> people >>> of colour or LGBT people have). >>> >>> Again, I don't think you would disagree with these 3 points. Indeed, you >>> embody them more fully than most disabled people. I am of the considered >>> view that these 3 points can best be brought home by laying the >>> foundation >>> for them in their application. It appears that you already do this, as >>> you >>> say that you make indirect references to it in your resume. The lawyers >>> in >>> that meeting, however, were saying that such references should also be >>> removed, to avoid the 2 consequences I outlined at para 4 above, which I >>> wholly disagree with. >>> >>> Finally, because you cannot predict which employers will try to be >>> discriminatory and which not, one's best bet would be to make a >>> disclosure, >>> either wholly or in part but in my view wholly, to be able to make these >>> 3 >>> points, in every case. >>> >>> Best, >>> Rahul >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Sep 14, 2018, at 10:15 PM, Kartik Sawhney <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Rahul, >>>> >>>> Your points are interesting but I still maintain what I said before. >>>> Let's say I am applying for a software engineering position. do I want >>>> the employer to be impressed by all that I have done despite my >>>> disability, or be impressed by my academic or professional >>>> accomplishments alone? Now, again, this is very personal, but I prefer >>>> the latter. I don't think that my disability should play any role in >>>> they selecting me as an engineer because that is not going to play any >>>> role when at job either. it might have helped me develop problem >>>> solving skills, but so have other academic and professional >>>> opportunities like anyone else, and I'd rather highlight them, not >>>> because I have any fear of they descriminating against me, but just >>>> because that is what I prefer. Indirect references to disability >>>> through leadership opportunities also highlight this, so I don't feel >>>> the need to explicitly highlight my disability. I might have done some >>>> crazy stuff despite my disability, but if I don't have the >>>> qualifications or experience they are looking for, then I shouldn't >>>> get that job just like anyone else. >>>> >>>> To your point about disclosing giving them enough time to think about >>>> constructive questions for the interview, I think you're making a big >>>> assumption there that the HR and your interviewers have all the time >>>> to research about your disability and carefully think about it. In >>>> most cases, this will not be true. A resume, on an average, receives >>>> no more than 30 s, and during that time, it is primarily going to be >>>> past knowledge and biases that will determine the outcome. I have >>>> disclosed on numerous occasions but most of the times, this was not >>>> even communicated to the interviewers. But, was the interview bad just >>>> because they did not know about my disability? No. I think it's up to >>>> you to make them comfortable and demonstrate during that process how >>>> you will be successful. Also, remember that in most of the cases, your >>>> resume is not even reviewed by the hiring manager before the >>>> interview, so by disclosing, you're only telling the HR who is not >>>> going to be involved in the interview. I'll admit all of this is true >>>> for tech, but I'm not sure how other industries work. >>>> >>>> I agree with your third point. The point is not about whether you >>>> should disclose, but it's more about when, to whom and how. We need to >>>> understand that just as how we might not understand other >>>> disabilities, the world does not understand us as well and that's >>>> fine. to expect them to do their research and somehow overcome their >>>> biases isn't fair either. It's really on us to help them understand us >>>> and our disabilities, which is exactly why I prefer disclosing at >>>> interviews or having conversations after one is shortlisted. >>>> >>>> There is no right or wrong answer here. It's a function of various >>>> things, including how you'd like the world to know you, whether there >>>> will be significant changes in how you do your work because of your >>>> disability and so on. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> -Kartik >>>> >>>>> On 9/14/18, Rahul Bajaj <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Kartik, it is certainly a personal decision, but I definitely believe >>>>> that >>>>> there is great value to be gained by making a case, in your job >>>>> application, >>>>> for the proposition that you have achieved a significant amount of >>>>> success, >>>>> assuming you have, despite your disability. In this way, you are able >>>>> to >>>>> arrogate to yourself the power to shape your narrative, insofar as it >>>>> concerns your disability. To illustrate, I used to mention in my cover >>>>> letter that the battle to thrive in a world designed essentially for >>>>> the >>>>> sighted has endowed me with a unique set of problem-solving skills >>>>> which >>>>> sets me apart. I think that you can present your disability as an >>>>> asset >>>>> if >>>>> you do this. >>>>> >>>>> Second, to your point about potential employers discerning the fact >>>>> that >>>>> you >>>>> are disabled when they see you for the interview, I think that >>>>> approach >>>>> deprives them of the opportunity to give careful thought to how your >>>>> disability might impact your work and to frame constructive questions >>>>> on >>>>> that basis. Whatever questions they ask you in such a scenario would >>>>> be >>>>> off >>>>> the cuff and so you may not be able to get a chance to address all >>>>> their >>>>> inhibitions. >>>>> >>>>> Third, I think it may not be a good idea to operate on the premise >>>>> that, >>>>> for >>>>> a person with a disability, the employment decision will wholly be >>>>> based >>>>> on >>>>> your qualifications and your disability will play no part in the >>>>> process. >>>>> I >>>>> think it certainly plays a part, even though it is true that you can >>>>> later, >>>>> by dint of your talents and abilities neutralize its role completely. >>>>> This >>>>> being so, it's best, in my view, to exhibit the willingness to discuss >>>>> it >>>>> upfront, as opposed to letting things unfold in their own way. >>>>> >>>>> Finally, I think it is also true that there are disabled people and >>>>> then >>>>> there are disabled people. Not everyone may have an academic record or >>>>> work >>>>> experience that can make you so much better qualified than others that >>>>> you >>>>> clearly have an upper hand, if the disability is taken out of the >>>>> calculus. >>>>> In that event, trying to downplay its impact may be the best idea. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 14, 2018, at 11:13 AM, Kartik Sawhney >>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a very personal decision in my opinion. A resume is meant to >>>>>> highlight some of the most important things you'd like to tell about >>>>>> yourself to a potential employer. If you decide that disability is >>>>>> one >>>>>> of those things, then sure, it should be included. However, if you >>>>>> think that disability is not as key from a resume perspective, and >>>>>> you'd only like to include it to give a heads-up to the employer, >>>>>> then >>>>>> I don't think that's necessary, especially for a visible disability. >>>>>> In any case, during the interview, the interviewers would know that >>>>>> you are a person with a disability. But at that time, you will have >>>>>> an >>>>>> opportunity to explain how you can accomplish your job well using >>>>>> assistive technology and how you have not let your disability be an >>>>>> impediment in the past. In India and the US both, there continues to >>>>>> be a lack of awareness, but it is not always the case that people >>>>>> don't want to understand. Your resume may be reviewed by people who >>>>>> genuinely don't think you can do the task because they really don't >>>>>> know anything about disability, but the same people might be the most >>>>>> supportive once you demonstrate how you do your work. Of course, you >>>>>> might need to disclose even before interview but after you have been >>>>>> shortlisted for one to get reasonable accommodations. Personally, I >>>>>> disclose disability indirectly on my resume through my work in the >>>>>> field and awards etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> -Kartik >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/13/18, Rahul Bajaj <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I hope this message finds you well. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I was actually wondering what you thought about something that >>>>>>>>> flows >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> a conversation that I had with some blind lawyers in the US in a >>>>>>>>> meeting >>>>>>>>> aimed at guiding some fresh law school graduates with disabilities >>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>> are finding great difficulty getting employed. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One line of argument was that a disabled lawyer should not >>>>>>>>> disclose >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> disability in their job application/cv, given that this wouldgive >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> employer a potential reason to discriminate and to find strategic >>>>>>>>> ways >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> disguise that discrimination in such a subtle way as to ensure >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> does not appear legally suspect (principally by citing reasons not >>>>>>>>> related to a person's disability for not giving an interview call >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> like, when the actual reason is disability). Proponents of this >>>>>>>>> view >>>>>>>>> believe that the interview process is solely aimed at ascertaining >>>>>>>>> whether an applicant is qualified for the job concerned and that a >>>>>>>>> disability has no bearing on that determination. By bringing the >>>>>>>>> disability into the picture, you often end up colouring a >>>>>>>>> potential >>>>>>>>> employer's views about you in a negative way. They argue that the >>>>>>>>> disability can be discussed once a decision to hire you has been >>>>>>>>> made, >>>>>>>>> for discussing reasonable accommodations. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On the other hand, I am of the view that it is important to >>>>>>>>> proceed >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> the premise that people do not have a discriminatory intent and to >>>>>>>>> disclose the fact of your disability upfront while also making >>>>>>>>> clear >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> your disability has not held you back from realizing your full >>>>>>>>> potential, >>>>>>>>> as opposed to brushing this issue under the carpet and thereby >>>>>>>>> squandering the opportunity to disabuse a potential employer of >>>>>>>>> false >>>>>>>>> notions and stereotypes about a disabled person's competence. My >>>>>>>>> view >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> that concealing the fact of one's disability at the time of >>>>>>>>> applying >>>>>>>>> prevents a potential employer from reflecting on the modus >>>>>>>>> operandi >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> a disabled employee is likely to adopt to perform their functions >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> consequently from asking questions about the disability in the >>>>>>>>> interview >>>>>>>>> which can enable them to form a more informed view about the >>>>>>>>> applicant's >>>>>>>>> suitability. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd be grateful if you could share your personal view about this, >>>>>>>>> whenever convenient, based on your own experience and >>>>>>>>> conversations >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> may have had with folks with disabilities. Some of them were >>>>>>>>> suggesting >>>>>>>>> that my views may be based on some unique features of Indian >>>>>>>>> society >>>>>>>>> which merit closer scrutiny. Thank you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> Rahul >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Search for old postings at: >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send a message to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> with the subject unsubscribe. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other >>>>>>> changes, >>>>>>> please >>>>>>> visit the list home page at >>>>>>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Disclaimer: >>>>>>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the >>>>>>> thinking >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its >>>>>>> veracity; >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >>>>>>> mails >>>>>>> sent through this mailing list.. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Search for old postings at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe send a message to >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> with the subject unsubscribe. >>>>>> >>>>>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, >>>>>> please visit the list home page at >>>>>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Disclaimer: >>>>>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking >>>>>> of >>>>>> the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its >>>>>> veracity; >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >>>>>> mails >>>>>> sent through this mailing list.. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Search for old postings at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe send a message to >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> with the subject unsubscribe. >>>>> >>>>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, >>>>> please >>>>> visit the list home page at >>>>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Disclaimer: >>>>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its >>>>> veracity; >>>>> >>>>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >>>>> mails >>>>> sent through this mailing list.. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Search for old postings at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe send a message to >>>> [email protected] >>>> with the subject unsubscribe. >>>> >>>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, >>>> please visit the list home page at >>>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in >>>> >>>> >>>> Disclaimer: >>>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking >>>> of >>>> the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its >>>> veracity; >>>> >>>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >>>> mails >>>> sent through this mailing list.. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Search for old postings at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> >>> To unsubscribe send a message to >>> [email protected] >>> with the subject unsubscribe. >>> >>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, >>> please >>> visit the list home page at >>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in >>> >>> >>> Disclaimer: >>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of >>> the >>> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; >>> >>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >>> mails >>> sent through this mailing list.. >>> >> >> >> -- >> -Kartik Sawhney, >> +1-(510) 766-3419 >> linkedin.com/in/kartiksawhney/ >> >> >> >> >> Search for old postings at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> >> To unsubscribe send a message to >> [email protected] >> with the subject unsubscribe. >> >> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, >> please >> visit the list home page at >> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in >> >> >> Disclaimer: >> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of >> the >> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; >> >> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >> mails >> sent through this mailing list.. >> > > > -- > Warm Regards > Sadaf Khan > > > > > Search for old postings at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > > To unsubscribe send a message to > [email protected] > with the subject unsubscribe. > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please > visit the list home page at > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in > > > Disclaimer: > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the > person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; > > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails > sent through this mailing list.. >
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