I think a plan is a make believe script.  It is not
real until it's acted.

Like the brokers say, "past performance is no
guarantee of future results". 

WC


--- Derek Allan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Re: ' You invent the script and then you act it
> out.'
> 
> But this is equating the idea of fiction with the
> idea of a plan. So, what
> is not fictional = what is not planned?
> 
> The term fiction I agree is an elusive one, but I
> took it that it was being
> contrasted with the idea of the real or the true.
> 
> DA
> 
> 
> 
> .On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 12:39 AM, William Conger
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> > Even your conscious thought processes are
> fictional,
> > make-believe.  You invent an ongoing script, as it
> > were, of those chaotic moment to moment
> experiences,
> > sorting them and inventing your nxt moment raction
> and
> > action, providing yourself a basic coherence.  You
> > invent the script and then you act it out.  You
> can
> > test this easily.  Go to the corner and prepare to
> > cross the street.  After you make it to the other
> side
> > reflect on the thought processes you had, what you
> > allowed in consciousness and what you excluded
> > (similar acceptance and rejection may occur
> > unconsciously too).  You quickly realize that you
> > invented a fairly succinct script, predicting what
> > will happen as you make decisions, and ignoring a
> > plethora of other events you might have focussed
> on
> > had you other interests in mind, such as noticing
> what
> > birds may be flying above.  In this sense at least
> our
> > processing of experiences is not unlike the
> > "composition" in artworks.  So I don't think we
> can
> > isolate the coherence of composition as a
> > distinguishing feature of art, unless we say daily
> > life experience, the way we process it and create
> > fictional scripts to play out, are art as well.
> >
> > WC
> >
> >
> > --- Derek Allan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Re  "And that's probably why Derek challenged it
> --
> > > since even if a
> > > Raskolnikov never existed -- the story about him
> > > might be considered
> > > important because something about his psychology
> is
> > > felt to be very real."
> > >
> > > Yes exactly.
> > >
> > > It's arguable in fact that our everyday
> experiences
> > > are so chaotic - so
> > > formless and lacking in consistency - that,
> while
> > > they may be real enough in
> > > terms of their consequences (they affect what we
> > > actually do), they never
> > > possess the kind of clarity and apprehensibility
> > > they achieve in a work of
> > > art. So in a sense they only become real   i.e.
> > > distinct and fully described
> > > - in a work of art.
> > >
> > > So, claiming that all art depends on fiction
> (and it
> > > is a common enough
> > > claim   eg one well known contemporary
> aesthetician,
> > > whose name I have
> > > temporarily forgotten, argues that all art
> depends
> > > on 'make believe') seems
> > > a fairly superficial observation to me.  What in
> the
> > > end is 'real' in the
> > > realm of human experience?  What we encounter in
> > > everyday life?  Or the form
> > > it takes in art?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Derek Allan
> > >
> >
>
http://www.home.netspeed.com.au/derek.allan/default.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 1:34 AM, Chris Miller
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Brady's notion of "fictional" would seem to be
> > > awkwardly replaceable by a
> > > > phrase like "not relevant to reality claims"
> -- as
> > > a sports broadcast
> > > > would
> > > > be("did he really catch the ball inbounds?" --
> > > "did the Niners really
> > > > win?")
> > > >
> > > > And that's probably why Derek challenged it --
> > > since even if a Raskolnikov
> > > > never existed -- the story about him might be
> > > considered important because
> > > > something about his psychology is felt to be
> very
> > > real.
> > > >
> > > > Which also might account for Derek's
> additional
> > > challenge:
> > > > "I am trying to pretend this discussion of
> sport
> > > on a philosophy of art
> > > > list
> > > > is not happening."
> > > >
> > > > And I also feel that there's something
> dreadful
> > > about emphasizing the
> > > > similarity between great moments in sports
> with
> > > the performances of
> > > > Shakespeare.
> > > >
> > > > I suppose there's no doubting that Cheerskep
> feels
> > > like he has an AE with
> > > > both
> > > > of them -- but unless we can determine some
> > > special quality about that
> > > > Shakespeare AE -- well, what's the point of
> > > telling kids to study great
> > > > literature --- when any jackass can go to the
> > > ballpark and have a great
> > > > time?
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
_____________________________________________________________
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> top
> > > companies.

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