I don't have problem with "non-disciplinary" as a freedom of imagination and expression. The trick is that freedom can't exist without some kind of traditions, practices and languages of art-making. Boris Shoshensky To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Facture Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 07:07:44 -0700 (PDT)
I like it because by saying "non-disciplinary" you imply that the work does not directly engage the traditional questions, practices, and language of a discipline. That means that art may not engage the traditions, practices and languages of art-making. Fine with me. Why? Because art is not any specific object, discipline, practice, tradition, etc., but is a particular relation between something and the experiencing mind. What that particular relation is, or whether it can be regarded as separate from the stream of consciousness or a special quality of it is, or seems to be, an unbounded aesthetic topic. wc ________________________________ From: Saul Ostrow <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; Chris Miller <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:48:53 AM Subject: Re: Facture How do you like this proposition Art is the material (visual) assemblage that results form a non-disciplinary modeling of experience, data, information, and knowledge On 9/30/09 9:40 AM, "Chris Miller" <[email protected]> wrote: If , as William says, "A claim is a claim and in the case of art, all claims are equal", then no claims are " universally validated by history, art, or practice", and the absence of such validation is irrelevant. If you disagree with Mando's claim, all you can do is offer examples of "machine made art" (as Mando defines it) which you would call good art. But unfortunately, Mando's definition is "those who do very realistic work without any skill in the doing of it" And how do you determine the presence or absence of skill, if not by the appearance of the results? Which makes the discussion of "machine made" -- or really any other kind of "facture" --- just another art-talk attempt to make a personal judgment sound more important. Mando doesn't like certain paintings and sculptures -- and since he's spent fifty years designing things, it can be important to know what those are. But his attempt to generalize those judgments with reference to "machine made" has gone nowhere. ____________________________________________________________ Click now for effective psoriasis treatment solutions. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/BLSrjnxRUxwJZTI6je0BGMgPD1QMFh SfuGauNpbcMh1nyexbTyN5fzI81PK/ --
