I am not an expert on this but ask them what data throughput speeds they can do on this meter reading system? I know a lot of rural Co-Ops that have had meter reading and network monitoring over their lines for years. So yes you can do some level of data over power lines and pass through transformers but I don't think they had enough throughput capacity to offer it as a broadband service, just their own internal system monitoring and control. My recollection is that they were on very low frequencies (sub one megahertz comes to mind). The BPL systems covered huge swaths of spectrum to deliver high speed services that was suitable for broadband internet use and as such used a lot more spectrum. Depending on the frequencies used with the BPL equipment the open unshielded power lines actually become antennas and broadcast noise on the same spectrum used for the data. This is why cable TV systems all use shielded coax so as to not actually broadcast RF signals that they are sending through the coax system. This is such a big deal the cable systems are required to do an RF leakage test EVERY 6 MONTHS to ensure they do not leak any RF signals especially in the range that would interfere with aviation navigational devices. These test are physically done, typically via aircraft flyovers but are also done via drive test on the roads. Meter reading can be done at very slow speeds.
But hey, doubt so many electric companies who tried and failed for various reasons, or that nobody else over the years got it working on any large scale in rural markets. What do all of those people know? Certainly not as much as a single WISP might ;-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-line_communication "Data rates and distance limits vary widely over many power-line communication standards. Low-frequency (about 100–200 kHz) carriers impressed on high-voltage transmission lines may carry one or two analog voice circuits, or telemetry and control circuits with an equivalent data rate of a few hundred bits per second; however, these circuits may be many miles long. Higher data rates generally imply shorter ranges; a local area network operating at millions of bits per second may only cover one floor of an office building, but eliminates the need for installation of dedicated network cabling." "Utility companies use special coupling capacitors to connect radio transmitters to the power-frequency AC conductors. Frequencies used are in the range of 24 to 500 kHz, with transmitter power levels up to hundreds of watts. These signals may be impressed on one conductor, on two conductors or on all three conductors of a high-voltage AC transmission line. Several PLC channels may be coupled onto one HV line. Filtering devices are applied at substations to prevent the carrier frequency current from being bypassed through the station apparatus and to ensure that distant faults do not affect the isolated segments of the PLC system. These circuits are used for control of switchgear, and for protection of transmission lines. For example, a protective relay can use a PLC channel to trip a line if a fault is detected between its two terminals, but to leave the line in operation if the fault is elsewhere on the system." "The Distribution Line Carrier (DLC) System technology used a frequency range of 9 to 500 kHz with data rate up to 576 kbit/s." Google the city of Manassas VA and BPL, they were the poster child for the technology. The systems have been used in MDU situations Thank You, Brian Webster -----Original Message----- From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 9:11 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Access Broadband over Powerline Hmmm. Just spoke with our power company. Their meter data flows throw the transformer. How’s that work? > On Jul 19, 2018, at 21:07, Brian Webster <[email protected]> wrote: > > That type of meter reading is very slow speed data as I recall, I think less > than dial up. It works good for once a month meter readings and occasionally > sending data bullets to shut down water heaters and such. As Adam mentioned > the idea of BPL was flawed because they assumed in the models that there > were many houses per transformer. In rural areas where they really want to > do this there is more commonly one house per transformer so the business > model falls apart. The other major issue was that the BPL systems used > frequencies on open wires that interfered in a major way with various > licensed services on the shortwave bands and as such they became > unintentional radiators and that had international implications based on > treaties. They tried to notch out the frequencies that they were causing > interference but then that made the bandwidth for the broadband side suffer > in a big way. > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 8:54 PM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Access Broadband over Powerline > > Our local power company has smart meters that they absolutely read over the > powerline. > > I feel like even if you had to do a electric tap and a small access point at > the transformer you could stomach it is the smile on it. > >> On Jul 19, 2018, at 20:46, Adam Moffett <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> They use wireless for smart meters. Around here it's Wimax to feed a > 900mhz base station, then 900 to the smart meter. In a different > municipality nearby they have a mobile system that polls the meters when > they drive by. So the meter reader still exists, but all he has to do is > drive slowly down the street. >> >> I didn't look hard at BPL after learning about the transformer issue. > That seems to make it a non-starter as far as I can tell. I think you can > run some flavor of BPL on the primaries. Or run fiber down the road. Or > wireless to the transformer, BPL to the house. >> >> If there was a viable business in BPL, every power company would already > be doing it. They've had plenty of time to research the topic. >> >> -Adam >> >> >>> On 7/19/2018 8:38 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>> Seems simple enough. >>> >>> So what means exist for BPL to the transformer? >>> >>> How do smart meters work? They have to jump the transformer some how. >>> >>>> On Jul 19, 2018, at 20:33, Adam Moffett <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Signal doesn't pass through transformers, so you need the access point > on the customer side of the transformer. So you need a means to get > internet to the pole which has the customer's transformer on it. If you > could do that you wouldn't need the BPL. >>>> >>>> That's the long and the short of it. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 7/19/2018 8:18 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>>>> There was much chatter about this technology some years ago, and then > the talk of it fizzled - even though the FCC approved it. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone know of anyone making access wide area BPL equipment > currently? >>>>> >>>>> Anyone here have any experience with it? >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
