A city near us, Princeton, IL, deployed it years ago. I remember BPL being slow.
Article from 5 years ago: http://www.bcrnews.com/2013/07/02/bpl-not-up-to-speed/a7e40dl/ On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 8:36 AM, Lewis Bergman <[email protected]> wrote: > My power company is installing FTTH. I don't know what eval they did but > they nixed BPL. > > On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 7:16 AM Dennis Burgess <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> All we need is a high voltage access point that can run off the High >> voltage side and you would be fine, 5ghz is fine, but it receices its power >> and broadband though the high voltage side, then you place a AP and a CPE on >> any houses that can see it, just keep adding them. >> >> My assumption is such a beast would be expensive, hard to approve though >> the utilities, and would not be sub 200 bucks to make deploying small micro >> 5ghzs aps affordable. ;) >> >> >> >> Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer >> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” >> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services >> Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net >> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Webster >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 9:03 PM >> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Access Broadband over Powerline >> >> I am not an expert on this but ask them what data throughput speeds they >> can do on this meter reading system? I know a lot of rural Co-Ops that have >> had meter reading and network monitoring over their lines for years. So yes >> you can do some level of data over power lines and pass through transformers >> but I don't think they had enough throughput capacity to offer it as a >> broadband service, just their own internal system monitoring and control. >> My recollection is that they were on very low frequencies (sub one megahertz >> comes to mind). The BPL systems covered huge swaths of spectrum to deliver >> high speed services that was suitable for broadband internet use and as such >> used a lot more spectrum. Depending on the frequencies used with the BPL >> equipment the open unshielded power lines actually become antennas and >> broadcast noise on the same spectrum used for the data. This is why cable TV >> systems all use shielded coax so as to not actually broadcast RF signals >> that they are sending through the coax system. This is such a big deal the >> cable systems are required to do an RF leakage test EVERY 6 MONTHS to ensure >> they do not leak any RF signals especially in the range that would interfere >> with aviation navigational devices. These test are physically done, >> typically via aircraft flyovers but are also done via drive test on the >> roads. Meter reading can be done at very slow speeds. >> >> But hey, doubt so many electric companies who tried and failed for various >> reasons, or that nobody else over the years got it working on any large >> scale in rural markets. What do all of those people know? Certainly not as >> much as a single WISP might ;-) >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-line_communication >> >> "Data rates and distance limits vary widely over many power-line >> communication standards. Low-frequency (about 100–200 kHz) carriers >> impressed on high-voltage transmission lines may carry one or two analog >> voice circuits, or telemetry and control circuits with an equivalent data >> rate of a few hundred bits per second; however, these circuits may be many >> miles long. Higher data rates generally imply shorter ranges; a local area >> network operating at millions of bits per second may only cover one floor of >> an office building, but eliminates the need for installation of dedicated >> network cabling." >> >> "Utility companies use special coupling capacitors to connect radio >> transmitters to the power-frequency AC conductors. Frequencies used are in >> the range of 24 to 500 kHz, with transmitter power levels up to hundreds of >> watts. These signals may be impressed on one conductor, on two conductors or >> on all three conductors of a high-voltage AC transmission line. Several PLC >> channels may be coupled onto one HV line. Filtering devices are applied at >> substations to prevent the carrier frequency current from being bypassed >> through the station apparatus and to ensure that distant faults do not >> affect the isolated segments of the PLC system. These circuits are used for >> control of switchgear, and for protection of transmission lines. For >> example, a protective relay can use a PLC channel to trip a line if a fault >> is detected between its two terminals, but to leave the line in operation if >> the fault is elsewhere on the system." >> >> "The Distribution Line Carrier (DLC) System technology used a frequency >> range of 9 to 500 kHz with data rate up to 576 kbit/s." >> >> Google the city of Manassas VA and BPL, they were the poster child for the >> technology. The systems have been used in MDU situations >> >> Thank You, >> Brian Webster >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes >> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 9:11 PM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Access Broadband over Powerline >> >> Hmmm. Just spoke with our power company. Their meter data flows throw the >> transformer. >> >> How’s that work? >> >> > On Jul 19, 2018, at 21:07, Brian Webster <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > That type of meter reading is very slow speed data as I recall, I >> > think less than dial up. It works good for once a month meter readings >> > and occasionally sending data bullets to shut down water heaters and >> > such. As Adam mentioned the idea of BPL was flawed because they >> > assumed in the models that there were many houses per transformer. In >> > rural areas where they really want to do this there is more commonly >> > one house per transformer so the business model falls apart. The other >> > major issue was that the BPL systems used frequencies on open wires >> > that interfered in a major way with various licensed services on the >> > shortwave bands and as such they became unintentional radiators and >> > that had international implications based on treaties. They tried to >> > notch out the frequencies that they were causing interference but then >> > that made the bandwidth for the broadband side suffer in a big way. >> > >> > Thank You, >> > Brian Webster >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes >> > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 8:54 PM >> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Access Broadband over Powerline >> > >> > Our local power company has smart meters that they absolutely read >> > over the powerline. >> > >> > I feel like even if you had to do a electric tap and a small access >> > point at the transformer you could stomach it is the smile on it. >> > >> >> On Jul 19, 2018, at 20:46, Adam Moffett <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> They use wireless for smart meters. Around here it's Wimax to feed a >> > 900mhz base station, then 900 to the smart meter. In a different >> > municipality nearby they have a mobile system that polls the meters >> > when they drive by. So the meter reader still exists, but all he has >> > to do is drive slowly down the street. >> >> >> >> I didn't look hard at BPL after learning about the transformer issue. >> > That seems to make it a non-starter as far as I can tell. I think you >> > can run some flavor of BPL on the primaries. Or run fiber down the >> > road. Or wireless to the transformer, BPL to the house. >> >> >> >> If there was a viable business in BPL, every power company would >> >> already >> > be doing it. They've had plenty of time to research the topic. >> >> >> >> -Adam >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 7/19/2018 8:38 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >> >>> Seems simple enough. >> >>> >> >>> So what means exist for BPL to the transformer? >> >>> >> >>> How do smart meters work? They have to jump the transformer some how. >> >>> >> >>>> On Jul 19, 2018, at 20:33, Adam Moffett <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Signal doesn't pass through transformers, so you need the access >> >>>> point >> > on the customer side of the transformer. So you need a means to get >> > internet to the pole which has the customer's transformer on it. If >> > you could do that you wouldn't need the BPL. >> >>>> >> >>>> That's the long and the short of it. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> On 7/19/2018 8:18 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >> >>>>> There was much chatter about this technology some years ago, and >> >>>>> then >> > the talk of it fizzled - even though the FCC approved it. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Does anyone know of anyone making access wide area BPL equipment >> > currently? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Anyone here have any experience with it? >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> AF mailing list >> >>>> [email protected] >> >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> AF mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > >> > -- >> > AF mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > >> > >> > -- >> > AF mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- Micah Miller Network/Server Administrator Network Business Systems, Inc. Phone: 309-944-8823 -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
