My power company is installing FTTH. I don't know what eval they did but they nixed BPL.
On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 7:16 AM Dennis Burgess <[email protected]> wrote: > All we need is a high voltage access point that can run off the High > voltage side and you would be fine, 5ghz is fine, but it receices its power > and broadband though the high voltage side, then you place a AP and a CPE > on any houses that can see it, just keep adding them. > > My assumption is such a beast would be expensive, hard to approve though > the utilities, and would not be sub 200 bucks to make deploying small micro > 5ghzs aps affordable. ;) > > > > Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer > Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” > Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services > Office: 314-735-0270 <(314)%20735-0270> Website: http://www.linktechs.net > Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Webster > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 9:03 PM > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Access Broadband over Powerline > > I am not an expert on this but ask them what data throughput speeds they > can do on this meter reading system? I know a lot of rural Co-Ops that have > had meter reading and network monitoring over their lines for years. So yes > you can do some level of data over power lines and pass through > transformers but I don't think they had enough throughput capacity to offer > it as a broadband service, just their own internal system monitoring and > control. My recollection is that they were on very low frequencies (sub > one megahertz comes to mind). The BPL systems covered huge swaths of > spectrum to deliver high speed services that was suitable for broadband > internet use and as such used a lot more spectrum. Depending on the > frequencies used with the BPL equipment the open unshielded power lines > actually become antennas and broadcast noise on the same spectrum used for > the data. This is why cable TV systems all use shielded coax so as to not > actually broadcast RF signals that they are sending through the coax > system. This is such a big deal the cable systems are required to do an RF > leakage test EVERY 6 MONTHS to ensure they do not leak any RF signals > especially in the range that would interfere with aviation navigational > devices. These test are physically done, typically via aircraft flyovers > but are also done via drive test on the roads. Meter reading can be done > at very slow speeds. > > But hey, doubt so many electric companies who tried and failed for various > reasons, or that nobody else over the years got it working on any large > scale in rural markets. What do all of those people know? Certainly not as > much as a single WISP might ;-) > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-line_communication > > "Data rates and distance limits vary widely over many power-line > communication standards. Low-frequency (about 100–200 kHz) carriers > impressed on high-voltage transmission lines may carry one or two analog > voice circuits, or telemetry and control circuits with an equivalent data > rate of a few hundred bits per second; however, these circuits may be many > miles long. Higher data rates generally imply shorter ranges; a local area > network operating at millions of bits per second may only cover one floor > of an office building, but eliminates the need for installation of > dedicated network cabling." > > "Utility companies use special coupling capacitors to connect radio > transmitters to the power-frequency AC conductors. Frequencies used are in > the range of 24 to 500 kHz, with transmitter power levels up to hundreds of > watts. These signals may be impressed on one conductor, on two conductors > or on all three conductors of a high-voltage AC transmission line. Several > PLC channels may be coupled onto one HV line. Filtering devices are applied > at substations to prevent the carrier frequency current from being bypassed > through the station apparatus and to ensure that distant faults do not > affect the isolated segments of the PLC system. These circuits are used for > control of switchgear, and for protection of transmission lines. For > example, a protective relay can use a PLC channel to trip a line if a fault > is detected between its two terminals, but to leave the line in operation > if the fault is elsewhere on the system." > > "The Distribution Line Carrier (DLC) System technology used a frequency > range of 9 to 500 kHz with data rate up to 576 kbit/s." > > Google the city of Manassas VA and BPL, they were the poster child for the > technology. The systems have been used in MDU situations > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 9:11 PM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Access Broadband over Powerline > > Hmmm. Just spoke with our power company. Their meter data flows throw the > transformer. > > How’s that work? > > > On Jul 19, 2018, at 21:07, Brian Webster <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > That type of meter reading is very slow speed data as I recall, I > > think less than dial up. It works good for once a month meter readings > > and occasionally sending data bullets to shut down water heaters and > > such. As Adam mentioned the idea of BPL was flawed because they > > assumed in the models that there were many houses per transformer. In > > rural areas where they really want to do this there is more commonly > > one house per transformer so the business model falls apart. The other > > major issue was that the BPL systems used frequencies on open wires > > that interfered in a major way with various licensed services on the > > shortwave bands and as such they became unintentional radiators and > > that had international implications based on treaties. They tried to > > notch out the frequencies that they were causing interference but then > > that made the bandwidth for the broadband side suffer in a big way. > > > > Thank You, > > Brian Webster > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes > > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 8:54 PM > > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Access Broadband over Powerline > > > > Our local power company has smart meters that they absolutely read > > over the powerline. > > > > I feel like even if you had to do a electric tap and a small access > > point at the transformer you could stomach it is the smile on it. > > > >> On Jul 19, 2018, at 20:46, Adam Moffett <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> They use wireless for smart meters. Around here it's Wimax to feed a > > 900mhz base station, then 900 to the smart meter. In a different > > municipality nearby they have a mobile system that polls the meters > > when they drive by. So the meter reader still exists, but all he has > > to do is drive slowly down the street. > >> > >> I didn't look hard at BPL after learning about the transformer issue. > > That seems to make it a non-starter as far as I can tell. I think you > > can run some flavor of BPL on the primaries. Or run fiber down the > > road. Or wireless to the transformer, BPL to the house. > >> > >> If there was a viable business in BPL, every power company would > >> already > > be doing it. They've had plenty of time to research the topic. > >> > >> -Adam > >> > >> > >>> On 7/19/2018 8:38 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: > >>> Seems simple enough. > >>> > >>> So what means exist for BPL to the transformer? > >>> > >>> How do smart meters work? They have to jump the transformer some how. > >>> > >>>> On Jul 19, 2018, at 20:33, Adam Moffett <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Signal doesn't pass through transformers, so you need the access > >>>> point > > on the customer side of the transformer. So you need a means to get > > internet to the pole which has the customer's transformer on it. If > > you could do that you wouldn't need the BPL. > >>>> > >>>> That's the long and the short of it. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On 7/19/2018 8:18 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: > >>>>> There was much chatter about this technology some years ago, and > >>>>> then > > the talk of it fizzled - even though the FCC approved it. > >>>>> > >>>>> Does anyone know of anyone making access wide area BPL equipment > > currently? > >>>>> > >>>>> Anyone here have any experience with it? > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> AF mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > >> > >> > >> -- > >> AF mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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