Cost Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:32 PM, Steve Jones <[email protected]> wrote: > > oh. I cant see that if we ever did this type of fiber we would direct bury. > aside from cost is there any reason one wouldnt duct? > >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 10:24 AM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: >> I like 100’ in each handhole. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 9:10 AM, Mark Radabaugh <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Steve Jones <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> 300k was a quote at one point. Weve got a little under half that in >>>> microwave solutions spread over the years and we are coming up on >>>> consistent 1/3 capacity with spikes over half, so we will outgrow that >>>> investment again in a relatively short period. >>> >>> 30k / mile is pretty typical. >>> >>>> >>>> "You can cut and splice duct when going over and under obstacles. If >>>> doing direct burial you would be doing giant figure 8s or cutting and >>>> splicing every time you hit a culvert or other shallow facility." >>> >>>> I assume these figure8 are slack and in handhole/vaults? so in rural >>>> areas, at least 1 per mile since theres a road every mile? >>> >>> >>> Nope. The figure-8 is how you have to handle the cable when installing it >>> if you don’t have duct. When direct burying the cable you have to take >>> the spool with you as you go since you can’t pull cable once it’s buried. >>> Every time you need to pass under an obstacle you either have to cut the >>> fiber and splice it back together or pull the entire remainder of the cable >>> off the real, store it temporarily, shove the end under the obstacle and >>> then reel up all the cable again. It’s a seriously labor intensive >>> process and you risk damaging the cable every time you do it. >>>> >>>> Whats the rule of thumb on slack? is there a percentage? like say for >>>> every 1000 feet you have x feet of slack? I aasume when an auger hits the >>>> duct it will pull alot of that slack? >>> >>> 10% >>> >>> Mark >>> >>>> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:04 PM Chuck McCown <[email protected] wrote: >>>>> Duct can be had for 35 cents / foot or less. I was getting it for 28 >>>>> cents until the extrusion company went BK. >>>>> >>>>> You can cut and splice duct when going over and under obstacles. If >>>>> doing direct burial you would be doing giant figure 8s or cutting and >>>>> splicing every time you hit a culvert or other shallow facility. >>>>> >>>>> You can blow another fiber over the top of an existing fiber. >>>>> >>>>> Fewer fiber cuts and splices etc. In my opinion you don’t save that much >>>>> money with direct burial. >>>>> >>>>> From: Chris Fabien >>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 10:53 AM >>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>> >>>>> I know we've had this discussion before.... we don't have gophers in >>>>> Michigan. Only damage we have had on direct bury was due to gas company. >>>>> Yeah it was a pain to fix, about 8 hours of downtime. But the cost >>>>> savings is worth it to me for my network. We are doing FTTH so we do have >>>>> more handholes for test points. Usually at least 6 per mile. Don't know >>>>> where Steve is or how well funded so just sharing a lower cost option, I >>>>> guess. >>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:15 PM Chuck McCown <[email protected] wrote: >>>>>> The worst part of direct burial is gopher damage. And they will eat it >>>>>> up on 100 places but they may not fail until there is some nearby >>>>>> vibration. They seem to have the ability to eat up the cable but leave >>>>>> the strands intact or just break one or two of them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, you first have to find the damage and in long rural stretches that >>>>>> can be difficult, more so with direct because you have to dig, cut, >>>>>> test, dig cut test. With duct you just pull on it and see if it moves. >>>>>> OTDRs are not precision measuring devices. Even if they are +-1% >>>>>> accurate, that is 52 feet of uncertainty in a mile. So you shoot both >>>>>> ends and then extrapolate the center of overlap or gap. >>>>>> >>>>>> Pray, dig, cut, test, splice, pray, dig, cuts, test, splice. Repeat >>>>>> until you get there. After some time you will have it bracketed and >>>>>> many times you just replace 1000’ instead of actually finding and fixing >>>>>> the problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> All the while customers are very unhappy. I have had it take a week to >>>>>> fix very long remote troubles like this. >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Colin Stanners >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:56 AM >>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>> >>>>>> We also usually install a second duct on all major routes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chuck, with your long career, I assume that you've had a few cases where >>>>>> direct burial took a long time/difficulties to fix? >>>>>> >>>>>> Now working in the long-distance/underground industry, doing all the >>>>>> planning and permitting, I've seen our guys pull up things - including >>>>>> a boulder the size of a car - from the ground so that they could get >>>>>> that conduit through. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 10:48 AM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> I never do direct burial any more. Not even on drops. Generally I >>>>>>> install an extra duct, I like duralines future path products if I can >>>>>>> justify the expense. I need to learn how to install microduct into >>>>>>> regular duct. I am sure I can pull it but I would like to figure out >>>>>>> how to blow it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Colin Stanners >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:42 AM >>>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I try hard to steer clear of direct-burying cable, which is much easier >>>>>>> to damage and extremely time-consuming to repair, unless it's a >>>>>>> non-crucial line (e.g. standard residential customer, although those we >>>>>>> currently put in conduit as well, to keep future risk and repair costs >>>>>>> low). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If this customer is paying 1/4 million to get a line installed, it's >>>>>>> probably crucial. One day when that line gets hit, if it's in conduit >>>>>>> it's likely possible to get it repaired within hours to a day. I've >>>>>>> even heard of cases of the fiber surviving a conduit-line hit since >>>>>>> it's "loose" inside the conduit and has slack at the ends. If a >>>>>>> direct-buried line gets hit, especially next to a road etc, it may be >>>>>>> needed to get locates, arrange a drill, electrical/gas line safety >>>>>>> watch, etc, possibly even arrange more permitting for a new vault, >>>>>>> which will often move time to repair to days or a week+. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 9:28 AM Chris Fabien <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Steve in our area we could do that "on the cheap" with 12 or 24 count >>>>>>>> cable direct buried for around 100k. There are so many variables >>>>>>>> though. You really need someone who has done work in that area and is >>>>>>>> familiar with permitting costs and requirements. I'd it's so rural >>>>>>>> that you can plow the bulk of it and you are OK with direct bury you >>>>>>>> can save a ton of money vs putting it all in duct. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Personally I run at least 24 strands on any run that's going >>>>>>>> "somewhere". Dead end runs can be 12F. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 1:46 AM Steve Jones <[email protected] >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> If a guy wanted to get fiber in the ground, non aerial between two >>>>>>>>> buildings to replace an existing licensed 1.3 gb link. Crosses 3 >>>>>>>>> creek/ditches, 10 rural intersections, 10 rural town blocks. What >>>>>>>>> would be needed? >>>>>>>>> I would guess that duct is the best thing to put it in, innerduct >>>>>>>>> being better. >>>>>>>>> I'd guess 96+ count isn't going to cost any more per strand to put in >>>>>>>>> the duct than 2 (not the cost of the fiber itself) >>>>>>>>> Lots of dark strands and duct space is probably lucrative to have >>>>>>>>> just in case. >>>>>>>>> Slack, handholes, vaults, etc, what would you put in there? 10 or so >>>>>>>>> customers on the path so not a ftth type thing. >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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