illinois is great, good dirt, lots of taxes On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 11:37 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
> Good dirt, yes. I'm in the DeKalb area. Some of the best dirt on Earth > around here. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> > *Sent: *Wednesday, February 13, 2019 11:30:23 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber > > Depends on the size of the machine etc. My largest machine can back ream > a 12” hole and do 550’ if the soil is good. $7 is a good price. But you > probably have decent dirt too. > > *From:* Mike Hammett > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 13, 2019 10:25 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber > > I found a crew that'll do a ballpark drill cost of $7. I haven't gotten > any details yet about restoration, potholing, etc. I have some more crews > to follow up on. > > I was really targeting that for my total price due to what I heard others > in Indiana are paying, but it seems like I won't get there. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> > *Sent: *Wednesday, February 13, 2019 11:05:56 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber > > Directional drilling will cost from $15-$25/ft. > Plowing about $4 - $6/ft > Excavation $8 –$15/ft > Blowing $.50 - $1/ft > Splicing $10-$20 per burn > > *From:* Mike Hammett > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 13, 2019 9:59 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber > > I've been asking around for companies to do a bunch of build up here. I > haven't liked most of the quotes I've seen. I'll let you know what I end up > doing. > > That said, I was probably going to do everything other than the dirt work > myself. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> > *Sent: *Wednesday, February 13, 2019 10:47:01 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber > > In illinois, who would be a project contractor to approach for a > legitimate quote on a fiber project like this? Start to finish, permitting, > product spec, duct, fiber, terminations, handhole/vaults, trench/bore, etc > > On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:47 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> Cost >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:32 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> oh. I cant see that if we ever did this type of fiber we would direct >> bury. aside from cost is there any reason one wouldnt duct? >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 10:24 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >>> I like 100’ in each handhole. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 9:10 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> 300k was a quote at one point. Weve got a little under half that in >>> microwave solutions spread over the years and we are coming up on >>> consistent 1/3 capacity with spikes over half, so we will outgrow that >>> investment again in a relatively short period. >>> >>> >>> 30k / mile is pretty typical. >>> >>> >>> "You can cut and splice duct when going over and under obstacles. If >>> doing direct burial you would be doing giant figure 8s or cutting and >>> splicing every time you hit a culvert or other shallow facility." >>> >>> >>> I assume these figure8 are slack and in handhole/vaults? so in rural >>> areas, at least 1 per mile since theres a road every mile? >>> >>> >>> >>> Nope. The figure-8 is how you have to handle the cable when installing >>> it if you don’t have duct. When direct burying the cable you have to >>> take the spool with you as you go since you can’t pull cable once it’s >>> buried. Every time you need to pass under an obstacle you either have to >>> cut the fiber and splice it back together or pull the entire remainder of >>> the cable off the real, store it temporarily, shove the end under the >>> obstacle and then reel up all the cable again. It’s a seriously labor >>> intensive process and you risk damaging the cable every time you do it. >>> >>> >>> Whats the rule of thumb on slack? is there a percentage? like say for >>> every 1000 feet you have x feet of slack? I aasume when an auger hits the >>> duct it will pull alot of that slack? >>> >>> >>> 10% >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:04 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>> >>>> Duct can be had for 35 cents / foot or less. I was getting it for 28 >>>> cents until the extrusion company went BK. >>>> >>>> You can cut and splice duct when going over and under obstacles. If >>>> doing direct burial you would be doing giant figure 8s or cutting and >>>> splicing every time you hit a culvert or other shallow facility. >>>> >>>> You can blow another fiber over the top of an existing fiber. >>>> >>>> Fewer fiber cuts and splices etc. In my opinion you don’t save that >>>> much money with direct burial. >>>> >>>> *From:* Chris Fabien >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 10:53 AM >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>> >>>> I know we've had this discussion before.... we don't have gophers in >>>> Michigan. Only damage we have had on direct bury was due to gas company. >>>> Yeah it was a pain to fix, about 8 hours of downtime. But the cost savings >>>> is worth it to me for my network. We are doing FTTH so we do have more >>>> handholes for test points. Usually at least 6 per mile. Don't know where >>>> Steve is or how well funded so just sharing a lower cost option, I guess. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:15 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> The worst part of direct burial is gopher damage. And they will eat >>>>> it up on 100 places but they may not fail until there is some nearby >>>>> vibration. They seem to have the ability to eat up the cable but leave >>>>> the >>>>> strands intact or just break one or two of them. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, you first have to find the damage and in long rural stretches >>>>> that can be difficult, more so with direct because you have to dig, cut, >>>>> test, dig cut test. With duct you just pull on it and see if it moves. >>>>> OTDRs are not precision measuring devices. Even if they are +-1% >>>>> accurate, >>>>> that is 52 feet of uncertainty in a mile. So you shoot both ends and then >>>>> extrapolate the center of overlap or gap. >>>>> >>>>> Pray, dig, cut, test, splice, pray, dig, cuts, test, splice. Repeat >>>>> until you get there. After some time you will have it bracketed and many >>>>> times you just replace 1000’ instead of actually finding and fixing the >>>>> problem. >>>>> >>>>> All the while customers are very unhappy. I have had it take a week >>>>> to fix very long remote troubles like this. >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Colin Stanners >>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:56 AM >>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>> >>>>> We also usually install a second duct on all major routes. >>>>> >>>>> Chuck, with your long career, I assume that you've had a few cases >>>>> where direct burial took a long time/difficulties to fix? >>>>> >>>>> Now working in the long-distance/underground industry, doing all the >>>>> planning and permitting, I've seen our guys pull up things - including a >>>>> boulder the size of a car - from the ground so that they could get that >>>>> conduit through. >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 10:48 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I never do direct burial any more. Not even on drops. Generally I >>>>>> install an extra duct, I like duralines future path products if I can >>>>>> justify the expense. I need to learn how to install microduct into >>>>>> regular >>>>>> duct. I am sure I can pull it but I would like to figure out how to blow >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Colin Stanners >>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:42 AM >>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>> >>>>>> I try hard to steer clear of direct-burying cable, which is much >>>>>> easier to damage and extremely time-consuming to repair, unless it's a >>>>>> non-crucial line (e.g. standard residential customer, although those we >>>>>> currently put in conduit as well, to keep future risk and repair costs >>>>>> low). >>>>>> >>>>>> If this customer is paying 1/4 million to get a line installed, it's >>>>>> probably crucial. One day when that line gets hit, if it's in conduit >>>>>> it's >>>>>> likely possible to get it repaired within hours to a day. I've even heard >>>>>> of cases of the fiber surviving a conduit-line hit since it's "loose" >>>>>> inside the conduit and has slack at the ends. If a direct-buried line >>>>>> gets >>>>>> hit, especially next to a road etc, it may be needed to get locates, >>>>>> arrange a drill, electrical/gas line safety watch, etc, possibly even >>>>>> arrange more permitting for a new vault, which will often move time to >>>>>> repair to days or a week+. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 9:28 AM Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve in our area we could do that "on the cheap" with 12 or 24 >>>>>>> count cable direct buried for around 100k. There are so many variables >>>>>>> though. You really need someone who has done work in that area and is >>>>>>> familiar with permitting costs and requirements. I'd it's so rural that >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> can plow the bulk of it and you are OK with direct bury you can save a >>>>>>> ton >>>>>>> of money vs putting it all in duct. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Personally I run at least 24 strands on any run that's going >>>>>>> "somewhere". Dead end runs can be 12F. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 1:46 AM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If a guy wanted to get fiber in the ground, non aerial between two >>>>>>>> buildings to replace an existing licensed 1.3 gb link. Crosses 3 >>>>>>>> creek/ditches, 10 rural intersections, 10 rural town blocks. What >>>>>>>> would be >>>>>>>> needed? >>>>>>>> I would guess that duct is the best thing to put it in, innerduct >>>>>>>> being better. >>>>>>>> I'd guess 96+ count isn't going to cost any more per strand to put >>>>>>>> in the duct than 2 (not the cost of the fiber itself) >>>>>>>> Lots of dark strands and duct space is probably lucrative to have >>>>>>>> just in case. >>>>>>>> Slack, handholes, vaults, etc, what would you put in there? 10 or >>>>>>>> so customers on the path so not a ftth type thing. >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > ------------------------------ > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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