How does the system gain compare between the Aviat and Bridgewave radios? I
don't see anything listed on the publicly available spec sheet for the
Bridgewave.

On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 1:29 PM Tim Hardy <[email protected]> wrote:

> Just so we’re comparing apples to apples, Aviat’s values are typical.
> Guaranteed values over time are 2 dB less power and 2 dB less threshold, or
> 4 dB less system gain.
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 2:05 PM Darin Steffl <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Just to clarify on the aviat advanced replacement, that does not come
>> standard? I have access to their pricing tool and a 2 year standard
>> warranty is included but it does not include advanced replacement unless
>> you upgrade to that option. It's very affordable from what I saw.
>>
>> We are likely going to deploy 6 links of the wtm4200 this spring.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 12:35 PM Mathew Howard <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, xmt power looks pretty impressive on the Aviat radios. It also
>>> looks like the receive sensitivity is a couple db better than the PTP820C
>>> at any given modulation.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 12:24 PM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 25.5 dBm xmt power at 4096QAM is pretty impressive.  I remember several
>>>> years ago some talk of chipsets would use some sort of predistortion
>>>> technique to cancel out the distortion in the power amp, is that what is
>>>> going on in these radios?  I don’t remember who the chip vendor was.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Adair Winter
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 12:15 PM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Licensed radios
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> and we found that the WTM4200 has 5.5db more system gain then the SIAE
>>>> AP2 at 4096QAM which had better system gain then some of the other radios
>>>> on the market.
>>>>
>>>> SIAE questions if Aviat is reporting correct numbers but I don't think
>>>> they are incorrect either....
>>>>
>>>> Even if Aviat's numbers are a bit exaggerated and there was only a 3db
>>>> difference that's still a whole antennas size!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 12:12 PM Tim Hardy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, as I mentioned previously the system gain of the WTM 4200 at 80
>>>> MHz bandwidth, 4096 QAM is 77.5 dBm (threshold is -52.0 dBm and tx power is
>>>> 25.5 dBm).  This provides 7.5 dB more fade margin than the AF-11 at 80 MHz
>>>> bandwidth, 1024 QAM (system gain 70.5 dBm, threshold -52.5 dBm and tx power
>>>> is 18.0 dBm)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 15, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Mathew Howard <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Based on the required signal levels listed in Aviat's spec sheets, it
>>>> shouldn't be that hard to achieve 4096QAM. I don't remember what the
>>>> numbers were off hand, but it was well within what I would expect on a real
>>>> world link.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just to be clear, the links are actually running at 4096QAM?  That’s
>>>> pretty impressive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But is it like saying you own a 250 mph car?  It may be true, but you
>>>> also may not be able to verify it from personal experience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Adair Winter
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 9:46 AM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Licensed radios
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hell ya we do, we have three 4096 QAM links running and about to add
>>>> one more.
>>>>
>>>> It's the only way to go
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 9:43 AM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You have actual links running 4096QAM IRL?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I thought it was more like being able to land a quadruple axel.  Once.
>>>> In practice.  OK, define “land”.  Walk away?  Able to skate again once the
>>>> cast comes off?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But I have to admit my view of licensed backhaul capacity has evolved
>>>> as video streaming has come to dominate the Internet.  Once I thought the
>>>> only number that mattered was the 5 nines throughput, or worst case 4
>>>> nines.  But customers stream 24x7 and will raise a much bigger fuss over
>>>> most-of-the-time speed than over the occasional drop in capacity or even
>>>> outage.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Still, even on 2048QAM radios, actually getting 2048QAM seems like
>>>> hitting all green lights on the way to work.  It’s nice, but you don’t bet
>>>> your life on it, or cry when you see the modulation drop to 1024QAM for no
>>>> apparent reason.  Or 256 or 512 during heavy rain.  Maybe if you have all
>>>> really short links.  We are rural and don’t have that luxury.  Most of our
>>>> links are 6-10 miles.  And given that our climate future seems to look like
>>>> Waterworld, rain cannot be ignored.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Andreas Wiatowski
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 8:05 AM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Licensed radios
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I find the Aviat radios easier to configure…but the Cambium/Ceragon is
>>>> more of a mature platform. Aviat however does 4096QAM.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image001.jpg>
>>>>
>>>> *Internet.**​*
>>>> *​*
>>>> *Phone.**​**TV.*
>>>>
>>>> *Andreas Wiatowski*
>>>>
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>
>>>> Silo
>>>>
>>>> *1-866-727-4138, ext 600* <1-866-727-4138,%20ext%20600>
>>>>
>>>>  |
>>>>
>>>> *[email protected]* <[email protected]>
>>>>
>>>> *silo.ca* <http://www.silo.ca/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image002.png>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image003.png>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image004.png>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *AF <[email protected]> on behalf of Gino Villarini <
>>>> [email protected]>
>>>> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
>>>> *Date: *Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 4:31 AM
>>>> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Licensed radios
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [EXTERNAL]
>>>>
>>>> Right… yeah mind f*** the 820c is a dual core radio… the Bridgewave and
>>>> Aviat radios that do this are single core… so less $$$
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *AF <[email protected]> on behalf of Erich Kaiser <
>>>> [email protected]>
>>>> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
>>>> *Date: *Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 5:16 AM
>>>> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Licensed radios
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No you can do ACCP on one unit, you just need a combiner that they sell
>>>> that goes between the dish and radio.  Non-Adjacent channels could be an
>>>> option with two radios but probably would do it with two PTP820S and a
>>>> combiner.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Erich Kaiser
>>>>
>>>> North Central Tower
>>>>
>>>> [email protected]
>>>>
>>>> Office: 815-570-3101
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 2:39 AM Gino A. Villarini <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Don’t you need an extra radio for this on the 820C?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Gino** Villarini *
>>>> Founder/President
>>>> @gvillarini
>>>> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
>>>> m:
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: AF <[email protected]> on behalf of Erich Kaiser
>>>> <[email protected]>Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> <[email protected]>Date: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 2:49 AMTo: AnimalFarm
>>>> Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Licensed radios
>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>*
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>> PTP820C does this its called ACCP. <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>> Erich Kaiser <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>> North Central Tower <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>> [email protected] <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>> Office: 815-570-3101 <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 4:17 PM SmarterBroadband <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>> Hi <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>> The BridgeWave Navigator states it can have more than 2x80 channels on
>>>> one dual core radio, however the extra channels have to be adjacent.
>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>> Do any other vendors do this in 11 and 18GHz Today (no vaporware).
>>>> And do any have non-adjacent channels? <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>> Adam <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>> -- <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>> Adair Winter
>>>> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
>>>> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
>>>> C: 806.231.7180
>>>> http://www.amarillowireless.net
>>>> <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
>>>>   <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Adair Winter
>>>> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
>>>> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
>>>> C: 806.231.7180
>>>> http://www.amarillowireless.net
>>>> <http://www.amarillowireless.net>
>>>>
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