The nice thing about NPR is that they are unapologetically and self
admittedly "center left ". I can work with that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
I would only look at RT as a source of disinformation. I'm not sure
about Al Jazera. BBC is probably OK for a semi-European point of view,
but they seem to sensationalize things more than necessary. Fox with
some exceptions is almost a current admin mouthpiece. MSNBC is like the
anti-Fox, and CNN is a bit in between. I do pay attention to NPR, but I
think they tend to soft-pedal some things.
I try to read between the lines as much as possible.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 7/20/2020 10:48 AM, [email protected] wrote:
Problem is, there is no source of news you can trust. They all have a
bias.
Actually that applies to all people, they all have a bias.
So, I read CNN and MSNBC then average it with FOX and compare with RT and
Al Jazzera and then if that averages with BBC I will run with that.
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Webster
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:32 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
Is that all they are doing? I do not know and do not expect anyone who is
not directly involved in the activities to know at this stage, but it is
very plausible that they are doing what is within their authority.
Speculation by the media is not in itself reason either. Fact is people
should do their due diligence and try to find out their own facts. Leaving
that job up to a journalist and hanging your hat, opinion, and perception
on a journalist these days probably not the wisest plan of action. But if
a person wants to have an echo chamber opinion, they should go ahead and
pick the media outlet that supports their point of view and stick with
them. All media outlets these days have a major bias like we have never
seen before. One side or the other, doesn't matter. Journalistic integrity
is not what it used to be yet it would seem most of society is quick to
question everything and everyone except the media.
I know that if I lived in this area I would expect my constitutional
rights to be protected as a citizen with freedom of movement in those
neighborhoods and have access to my place of business or residence. A
government letting a whole region of a city be taken over like what
happened in Seattle is absurd. That was an invasion and take over plain
and simple. Protests are one thing, occupying a place and keeping cops out
and not having 100% agreement by all those in the occupied area is nothing
short than an act of war and at minimum domestic terrorism. Plain and
simple. If you do not believe that, seriously ask yourself if you would be
ok if that happened to you on your own property or property you own for
your place of business. That is a hostage/kidnap situation. Life, liberty,
and the pursuit of your own happiness has been taken away. Blocking you
from police, fire or EMS protection is shameful and illegal. Any
politician that does not look at things that way is a puppet and
hypocrite, especially when they have their own guards and security
protecting them. At least in Portland the Feds starting not to allow that
to happen in the Federal park or give them any more base of operations to
try and accomplish that in that city. The word "occupy" is always thrown
around by pacifists in a different context about our worldwide military
presence than how they support it for these types of protests, it's not
any different in definition on our own soil even if you do agree with the
political position or cause. No other person should be able to take
control like that and deny you the rights you are provided in this
country.
I guess my point is, don't let just one type of information intake form
your outrage. Speak to others that may have different input and knowledge
(but please do it in a civil way and with the intent to listen not just
answer back). This Portland situation likely started from just clearing
the park and then massive outrage flames were fanned based on people not
realizing that they were on federal land in the first place and those
officers were there to protect the property and enforce those laws.
Executive orders......not a fan of them. They can easily be misused and
usually a plan of last resort when there is political deadlock. An
executive order that says protect federal property? I would expect that
every federal officer knows that is their job. Heck every military person
knows that is their job. The first general order of a sentry is "to take
charge of this post and all government property in view". Was it an actual
executive order issued or was it more of a memo with the president
reminding people that is what needs to be done. Rioting and tearing down
statues and defacing federal (and by default taxpayer) property seems very
divisive at this point. Letting things devolve to more than that when the
group has "Occupy" in their name and cause should be treated as such and
not considered just a protest. Their intent is stated in the name.
Thank you,
Brian Webster
-----Original Message-----
From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 12:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
It doesn't all stem from clearing a park. That might not be what you're
trying to say, but it could be read that way.
The reason people are pointing a finger at the current administration is
there was an executive order signed a few weeks ago ordering federal
agencies to protect federal property, and that seems to be a direct
response to the ongoing protests. They can bring in this variety of
agencies because the Homeland Security Act of 2002 allows them to
deputize other federal agents to assist:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/us/politics/federal-agents-portland-arrests.html
So the justification is protecting federal property, but is that all
they're doing? No political motivations of any kind here? And while I'm
sure that they have the legal authority for all of this, isn't it ok to
ask whether they should?
On 7/20/2020 12:04 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
In Portland part of the protest and occupy movement protesters were
trying to camp out in a FEDERAL PARK downtown. This attempt to occupy
federal property has not happened in other cities that I am aware of and
hence the different agencies involved. That Park director requested more
federal law enforcement help in getting the people off the park grounds
and not allow them to camp there. This was not a case of the black
helicopters coming and federal officers taking over local law enforcement
authority from the locals. If was Federal Law Enforcement protecting
federal property. In ALL law enforcement agencies it is not unusual for
plain clothes officers, detectives etc. to have unmarked vehicles and use
them when making arrests. This is hardly unusual police activity if you
look at the whole picture. Local law enforcement does this type of thing
all of the time. If these federal officers had identified people who
committed a crime on federal property and then fled, they are within
their law enforcement powers to directly pursue and apprehend them even
if the apprehension is not on federal property. Local and state officers
have the same powers. It's not typically used but it's not unheard of for
say a police officer to pursue someone who they believe has committed a
felony and cross a state line. That officer is fully empowered to make
that arrest in the other state. It has happened many times and the laws
have been upheld to allow for this. There are also still the power to
effect a citizen's arrest as well. Nobody likes to do it because it gets
messy legally after the fact but that is still allowed in this country.
Before people get outraged at what the press is telling them is
happening, they should take a step back and gather their own facts and
knowledge and not be so quick to accept some "experts" statements. You
all know how bad a journalist can butcher up a technical article on stuff
we do and work with, what makes us think they are any smarter in the
field of law or medicine?
https://kval.com/news/local/police-remove-occupy-portland-campers-from-park?fbclid=IwAR0dSQqKXj_ikwqmSfvMvvPtOVoFVhGjwrH126Lhiomx3iZXlxTUGtT2S7E
"This morning, at request and at the lead of the US Federal Protective
Service, the Portland Police helped remove campers at Shrunk Plaza, which
is federal property across the street from Chapman Square," Adams wrote.
"The campers who were arrested - an estimated 8 to 10 people - at Shrunk
Plaza were detained by federal police and cited under US federal law.
Initial reports indicate arrests were completed in a peaceful manner."
Thank you,
Brian Webster
-----Original Message-----
From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:41 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
I don't think I'd like it if Obama had dispatched federal troops to
"Republican-led cities" claiming they are stupidly and conservatively
run.
It also doesn't make me comfortable having Ken Cuccinelli driving this.
Not a guy who should have the power to send troops to your city for
political reasons, or any reason. Andy Taylor would make him keep his
one bullet in his shirt pocket.
-----Original Message-----
From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 10:20 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
The US Border Patrol is a part of the Immigration and Naturalization
Service.
--
Larry Smith
[email protected]
On Mon July 20 2020 10:14, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I thought I read they admitted to being Customs & Border Patrol, at
least in Portland. But yes other reports say that a force was
assembled from various federal agencies so maybe also US Marshals.
They have been using border patrol in questionable ways for awhile,
like setting up roadblocks on highways hundreds of miles from any
border.
From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 9:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
The National Guard is a state resource. I think he can request it, but
I'm not sure he can command it.
What I read, they were US Marshals, and other unidentified federal
resources.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 7/20/2020 7:41 AM, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
Yeah, you gotta wonder what their orders were.
Doesn’t a president normally activate the National Guard when extra
help is needed?
These guys were – what? Homeland Security? ICE?
From: Jaime Solorza
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
Hitler tactics by Bunker Boy...there , I said it.
On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 2:49 PM <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> >
wrote:
Not trying to break lent, but I am lacking understanding.
What are the young white kids rioting about in Portland?
I am from Oregon, I remember protests in the 60s and 70s over Vietnam.
I also remember a line of State Police walking through a park downtown
and busting heads of those that did not clear out. Actually one of my
first telco bosses had been one of those State Bull Cops.
Are young white kids just aching for a chance at anarchy? I don’t get
it.
Misbehaving while trying to wrap some kind of noble cause around you
is pretty childish.
--
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[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
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