I didn’t assume that you were Adam. I pose questions or viewpoints for the wider audience. Too often I am seeing polarizing views all over from people who have never stopped to quietly consider the other side or multiple sides to an issue. Put the shoe on the other foot has been lost as a concept. The instant gratification society has lost their ability to have a little pause and consider mentality (part of getting old I guess). Whenever I have a chance to politely discuss situations with others and pose some other possibilities in a situation, most people will be courteous and say I guess I had never considered that point, or I was not aware of that fact. When I also listen to their perspective on the same topic it gives me other points to think about that I may not have known or thought about. I am not one to have any illusions that I can change a person’s beliefs or core values, but I do try and at least get a person to pause and try to consider a different viewpoint or facts. I have no aspirations or delusions that I can get people to think the way I do or believe that I am right on any particular topic. My upbringing and life experiences form a different outlook than any other person and I believe every other person I meet has experienced life in their own way that forms their own outlook.
Wow I am sounding like some old coger rocking on the porch…….. Thank you, Brian Webster From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 1:49 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political I would definitely not approve of a CHAZ/CHOP type thing in my neighborhood. I'm not sure what I would do about it. I suppose I'd probably show up to their meetings and say bad things to them. Then they'd call me a fascist or something. We'd have to see where it went from there. The executive order I referred to was signed by the president on June 26th. It was titled “Protecting American Monuments, Memorials, and Statues and Combating Recent Criminal Activity" I don't know what those federal agencies did in the absence of that specific order. Maybe they waited for an order? Please don't think I'm outraged. Quite the opposite. I don't think anything could possibly outrage me anymore because I'm sick and tired of outrage. On 7/20/2020 1:32 PM, Brian Webster wrote: Is that all they are doing? I do not know and do not expect anyone who is not directly involved in the activities to know at this stage, but it is very plausible that they are doing what is within their authority. Speculation by the media is not in itself reason either. Fact is people should do their due diligence and try to find out their own facts. Leaving that job up to a journalist and hanging your hat, opinion, and perception on a journalist these days probably not the wisest plan of action. But if a person wants to have an echo chamber opinion, they should go ahead and pick the media outlet that supports their point of view and stick with them. All media outlets these days have a major bias like we have never seen before. One side or the other, doesn't matter. Journalistic integrity is not what it used to be yet it would seem most of society is quick to question everything and everyone except the media. I know that if I lived in this area I would expect my constitutional rights to be protected as a citizen with freedom of movement in those neighborhoods and have access to my place of business or residence. A government letting a whole region of a city be taken over like what happened in Seattle is absurd. That was an invasion and take over plain and simple. Protests are one thing, occupying a place and keeping cops out and not having 100% agreement by all those in the occupied area is nothing short than an act of war and at minimum domestic terrorism. Plain and simple. If you do not believe that, seriously ask yourself if you would be ok if that happened to you on your own property or property you own for your place of business. That is a hostage/kidnap situation. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of your own happiness has been taken away. Blocking you from police, fire or EMS protection is shameful and illegal. Any politician that does not look at things that way is a puppet and hypocrite, especially when they have their own guards and security protecting them. At least in Portland the Feds starting not to allow that to happen in the Federal park or give them any more base of operations to try and accomplish that in that city. The word "occupy" is always thrown around by pacifists in a different context about our worldwide military presence than how they support it for these types of protests, it's not any different in definition on our own soil even if you do agree with the political position or cause. No other person should be able to take control like that and deny you the rights you are provided in this country. I guess my point is, don't let just one type of information intake form your outrage. Speak to others that may have different input and knowledge (but please do it in a civil way and with the intent to listen not just answer back). This Portland situation likely started from just clearing the park and then massive outrage flames were fanned based on people not realizing that they were on federal land in the first place and those officers were there to protect the property and enforce those laws. Executive orders......not a fan of them. They can easily be misused and usually a plan of last resort when there is political deadlock. An executive order that says protect federal property? I would expect that every federal officer knows that is their job. Heck every military person knows that is their job. The first general order of a sentry is "to take charge of this post and all government property in view". Was it an actual executive order issued or was it more of a memo with the president reminding people that is what needs to be done. Rioting and tearing down statues and defacing federal (and by default taxpayer) property seems very divisive at this point. Letting things devolve to more than that when the group has "Occupy" in their name and cause should be treated as such and not considered just a protest. Their intent is stated in the name. Thank you, Brian Webster -----Original Message----- From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 12:55 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political It doesn't all stem from clearing a park. That might not be what you're trying to say, but it could be read that way. The reason people are pointing a finger at the current administration is there was an executive order signed a few weeks ago ordering federal agencies to protect federal property, and that seems to be a direct response to the ongoing protests. They can bring in this variety of agencies because the Homeland Security Act of 2002 allows them to deputize other federal agents to assist: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/us/politics/federal-agents-portland-arrests.html So the justification is protecting federal property, but is that all they're doing? No political motivations of any kind here? And while I'm sure that they have the legal authority for all of this, isn't it ok to ask whether they should? On 7/20/2020 12:04 PM, Brian Webster wrote: In Portland part of the protest and occupy movement protesters were trying to camp out in a FEDERAL PARK downtown. This attempt to occupy federal property has not happened in other cities that I am aware of and hence the different agencies involved. That Park director requested more federal law enforcement help in getting the people off the park grounds and not allow them to camp there. This was not a case of the black helicopters coming and federal officers taking over local law enforcement authority from the locals. If was Federal Law Enforcement protecting federal property. In ALL law enforcement agencies it is not unusual for plain clothes officers, detectives etc. to have unmarked vehicles and use them when making arrests. This is hardly unusual police activity if you look at the whole picture. Local law enforcement does this type of thing all of the time. If these federal officers had identified people who committed a crime on federal property and then fled, they are within their law enforcement powers to directly pursue and apprehend them even if the apprehension is not on federal property. Local and state officers have the same powers. It's not typically used but it's not unheard of for say a police officer to pursue someone who they believe has committed a felony and cross a state line. That officer is fully empowered to make that arrest in the other state. It has happened many times and the laws have been upheld to allow for this. There are also still the power to effect a citizen's arrest as well. Nobody likes to do it because it gets messy legally after the fact but that is still allowed in this country. Before people get outraged at what the press is telling them is happening, they should take a step back and gather their own facts and knowledge and not be so quick to accept some "experts" statements. You all know how bad a journalist can butcher up a technical article on stuff we do and work with, what makes us think they are any smarter in the field of law or medicine? https://kval.com/news/local/police-remove-occupy-portland-campers-from-park?fbclid=IwAR0dSQqKXj_ikwqmSfvMvvPtOVoFVhGjwrH126Lhiomx3iZXlxTUGtT2S7E "This morning, at request and at the lead of the US Federal Protective Service, the Portland Police helped remove campers at Shrunk Plaza, which is federal property across the street from Chapman Square," Adams wrote. "The campers who were arrested - an estimated 8 to 10 people - at Shrunk Plaza were detained by federal police and cited under US federal law. Initial reports indicate arrests were completed in a peaceful manner." Thank you, Brian Webster -----Original Message----- From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:41 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political I don't think I'd like it if Obama had dispatched federal troops to "Republican-led cities" claiming they are stupidly and conservatively run. It also doesn't make me comfortable having Ken Cuccinelli driving this. Not a guy who should have the power to send troops to your city for political reasons, or any reason. Andy Taylor would make him keep his one bullet in his shirt pocket. -----Original Message----- From: AF <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Larry Smith Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 10:20 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political The US Border Patrol is a part of the Immigration and Naturalization Service. -- Larry Smith [email protected] On Mon July 20 2020 10:14, Ken Hohhof wrote: I thought I read they admitted to being Customs & Border Patrol, at least in Portland. But yes other reports say that a force was assembled from various federal agencies so maybe also US Marshals. They have been using border patrol in questionable ways for awhile, like setting up roadblocks on highways hundreds of miles from any border. From: AF <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 9:56 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political The National Guard is a state resource. I think he can request it, but I'm not sure he can command it. What I read, they were US Marshals, and other unidentified federal resources. bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 7/20/2020 7:41 AM, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: Yeah, you gotta wonder what their orders were. Doesn’t a president normally activate the National Guard when extra help is needed? These guys were – what? Homeland Security? ICE? From: Jaime Solorza Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political Hitler tactics by Bunker Boy...there , I said it. On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 2:49 PM <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Not trying to break lent, but I am lacking understanding. What are the young white kids rioting about in Portland? I am from Oregon, I remember protests in the 60s and 70s over Vietnam. I also remember a line of State Police walking through a park downtown and busting heads of those that did not clear out. Actually one of my first telco bosses had been one of those State Bull Cops. Are young white kids just aching for a chance at anarchy? I don’t get it. Misbehaving while trying to wrap some kind of noble cause around you is pretty childish. -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com _____ -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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