It was reported at one point that the walk-off was partly related to gun
incidents... whether or not that's true, I have no idea.
On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 3:06 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I thought the walk-off was some kind of labor dispute, but I have not been
> paying particularly close attention.
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 12/2/2021 12:44 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>
> Alec Baldwin being both the actor who held the gun AND the film producer
> has double the responsibility in this case. If he shirked those
> responsibilities that is no accident in my book. Not intentional
> necessarily but certainly an unavoidable accident.
>
>
>
> Didn’t I hear (and from the media mind you so that subject to falsities
> and misinterpretation) that part of the issue about the walk off was due to
> other gun incidents earlier in the production filming? As the producer
> Baldwin would be very responsible for those processes, procedures and
> adherence to the rules for filming. That alone would be negligence. There
> is likely a lot to this story we don’t know in the school of public opinion
> and knowledge and I am sure everyone was told to lawyer up and shut-up
> right after it happened.
>
>
>
> Tragic result no doubt, a horrible tragic result. Rules and regulations
> are no good if people don’t follow them or if they feel entitled and they
> don’t apply to them. Elitisms suck and there seems to be a lot of that in
> the world these days. The element of human greed or the feeling that
> someone is getting more because of avoidance of rules and such is part of
> the human experience. Communism certainly proved that.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 3:28 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
>
>
>
> I agree, 3 people totally fucked-up, but I suspect there is a 4th person
> who put the live ammo in the gun. Just because 3 f'ed-up, doesn't make
> them less responsible, I think these people should get neglicent homicide
> charges and the 4th person if found should get a homicide and attempted
> homicide charge. All of them should get time in jail.
>
> On 12/2/21 11:44, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> thats what the armorers attorney is saying.
>
> That doesnt change any of the culpabilities though, it just adds another
> person to the list. IF the bullets were changed while the firearms were on
> the cart, thats still the armorers responsibility. Now baldwin as a
> producer who was cutting corners had the armorer in another roll that
> pulled her away from the weapon, but that still falls on her, shes
> responsible for the firearms.
>
> The other two still lose zero responsibility based on who put the bullet
> in there, its irrelevant to their negligence
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 1:35 PM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes. I could give Baldwin a pass for not checking it himself, and
> delegating that responsibility to someone else since he's just a dumb
> actor, but that doesn't make him any less responsible. If he was too lazy
> or incompetent to check it himself, it's still his responsibility to make
> sure someone who was competent checked it for him.
>
>
>
> I also have to wonder if there's any chance somebody put live ammo in
> there intentionally... that would change things a bit.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 1:18 PM Jan-GAMs <j.vank...@grnacres.net> wrote:
>
> Movie sets for years have had fairly extensive rules on firearms, ammo
> and the handling thereof. What needs to happen with Rust is to find out
> how and why the rules were circumvented and find a way to make sure this
> never happens again. If that includes jail for life for Alec Baldwin,
> so be it. This shooting was no accident, it was a failure of 3
> individuals in a row to do their jobs and created a serious incident and
> loss of life. There never should have been real ammo on the set, the
> person handing the weapon to Baldwin should have verified what was in
> the weapon and Baldwin should have checked. None of that obviously took
> place. Someone put real ammo in that gun, anyone who knows how to put a
> bullet into a revolver would have to know the bullets were not fake,
> this could be a 4th person since it is obvious the other 3 involved did
> not do their job.
>
> On 12/2/21 10:27, Jay Weekley wrote:
> > Just watch any action movie such as John Wicke, Saving Private Ryan,
> > Heat etc. There have been three deaths that I know of in all movies
> > and TV series combined that I know of. Massive reform is not required.
> >
> > Mathew Howard wrote:
> >> Personally, I think all these calls for changes to how the film
> >> industry handles weapons safety, banning guns from sets, etc. are
> >> more than likely completely unnecessary. It appears to me that they
> >> already have pretty strict safety procedures, which seem to have
> >> worked pretty well for the last century or so. If the reports that
> >> the safety procedures were repeatedly violated on that set are true
> >> (to the point people were walking off the set because they thought it
> >> was unsafe), that's the problem. The people that ignored the rules
> >> and procedures need to be held accountable, one way or another.
> >> Throwing a few people in prison is going to be pretty effective at
> >> making sure the rules are followed in the future. Monetary loss,
> >> which probably won't even significantly hurt the lackeys that are
> >> probably actually responsible (aside from Baldwin himself) isn't
> >> going to have the same effect.
> >>
> >> Accidents happen, and sometimes they're unavoidable, but this isn't
> >> just a simple accident. This couldn't have happened if certain people
> >> had actually done their job. I don't think it's terribly unreasonable
> >> to hand a gun to some idiot actor and tell him to do whatever he
> >> needs to do with it, even if he's clueless and might violate every
> >> aspect of standard firearms safety - provided that gun passed through
> >> the hands of several other people who know what they're doing and
> >> verified there was no way it could hurt anybody.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 11:51 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com
> >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> So, what does jail time fix? A deterrent? Sending a message? A
> >> spanking for bad humans?
> >> This was an accident. My wife wrecked a car 20 years ago and one
> >> of my sons died. Should she have been put in jail? Accidents
> >> happen.
> >> The family has civil remedies because money is the only thing the
> >> legal system can do to attempt to make one whole.
> >> *From:* Steve Jones
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 10:43 AM
> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
> >> firearm safety is a universal applied universally to firearms.
> >> There is no different level of safety for different people. A
> >> firearms inherent danger doesnt lessen depending on where its used
> >> (maybe around flammable gasses). I hate cop out excuses for
> >> mishandling firearms. Thats how we have gotten to a point where
> >> people are afraid of an inanimate object.
> >> Now, putting a firearm in a morons hand like alec baldwin adds to
> >> the inherent danger, but thats beyond the basic principles of
> >> firearm safety (the ones that dont change)
> >> Multiple people need to see some jail time, starting with the
> >> person operating the firearm, thats the person ultimately
> >> responsible. The armorer, unless she can prove her sabatoge claim,
> >> needs to be in a cell. the guy who picked it up and gave it to the
> >> moron is just as culpable as twerp baldwin. Maybe they can be
> >> cellmates and split their time with shower bubba.
> >> This is a perfect example of why rule 1 exists, willfull ignorance
> >> of that is called negligence.
> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 11:12 AM Daniel White <dwh...@atheral.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm nervous around anyone with a firearm because on principle
> >> I trust no one. I trust no firearm is unloaded unless I
> >> maintain possession and cleared it myself. Active Duty/former
> >> military is mostly an exception since you act without respect
> >> there you can expect to have your face in the dirt pretty quick.
> >>
> >> I get though that you can't expect actors to know all the
> >> firearms they handle. The system they use is supposed to have
> >> multiple fail safes so that the actor doesn't need to be a
> >> weapons expert. I think the system works considering how few
> >> on set accidents have happened... and obviously procedure
> >> wasn't followed here.
> >>
> >> As I said, I think Alec is in some serious trouble as a
> >> producer... but I doubt anything will happen criminally in
> >> regards to him pulling the trigger.
> >>
> >> photograph
> >> Daniel White
> >> Co-Founder
> >> phone:+1 (702) 470-2770
> >> direct:+1 (702) 470-2766
> >>
> >>> Bill Prince
> >>> December 2, 2021 at 09:55
> >>>
> >>> You and me both. When I'm in the presence of people who (I
> >>> feel) are a bit too cavalier with a firearm, I get very
> >>> nervous, and my natural instinct is to get the hell away from
> >>> that person. I was taught to treat every firearm as if it is
> >>> loaded. My bolt action rifle, I keep the bolt stored separate
> >>> from the rifle. I don't put it in until I am ready to use it.
> >>>
> >>> bp
> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
> >>> On 12/2/2021 7:46 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Chuck McCown via AF
> >>> December 2, 2021 at 08:46
> >>> One junk news article has another person on the set saying
> >>> his finger was on the trigger guard.
> >>> Whether single or double action, a revolver takes some force
> >>> to fire.
> >>> I supposed if it was fully cocked and adjusted to have a hair
> >>> trigger it is possible to be extra easy to touch off.
> >>> I just cannot imagine someone handing me a firearm expecting
> >>> me to wave it around in the general direction of people and
> >>> me not checking it first. I would never trust someone’s word
> >>> on that.
> >>> *From:* Bill Prince
> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 8:28 AM
> >>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
> >>>
> >>> From where I'm sitting there had to be multiple screw ups.
> >>> First is the security of the weapons. Based on what I've read
> >>> (and I don't know how much of it is true), the weapons were
> >>> on a table; they had been used for "target practice" during
> >>> breaks; the armorer had declared them to be "cold" (in my
> >>> mind that means there is nothing in the chambers; not blanks,
> >>> not anything).
> >>>
> >>> If it was a dress rehearsal, I would expect that there were
> >>> multiple cameras running. Digital film does not cost enough
> >>> to matter, and it can be used to determine if they're getting
> >>> the shots they want.
> >>>
> >>> bp
> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
> >>> On 12/2/2021 5:31 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> -- AF mailing list
> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>> Bill Prince
> >>> December 2, 2021 at 08:28
> >>>
> >>> From where I'm sitting there had to be multiple screw ups.
> >>> First is the security of the weapons. Based on what I've read
> >>> (and I don't know how much of it is true), the weapons were
> >>> on a table; they had been used for "target practice" during
> >>> breaks; the armorer had declared them to be "cold" (in my
> >>> mind that means there is nothing in the chambers; not blanks,
> >>> not anything).
> >>>
> >>> If it was a dress rehearsal, I would expect that there were
> >>> multiple cameras running. Digital film does not cost enough
> >>> to matter, and it can be used to determine if they're getting
> >>> the shots they want.
> >>>
> >>> bp
> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
> >>> On 12/2/2021 5:31 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Mike Hammett
> >>> December 2, 2021 at 06:31
> >>> Something a lot of people are leaving out is that movie set
> >>> gun safety is likely quite different than real life gun
> >>> safety. Likely, the same rules don't apply in both scenarios.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----
> >>> Mike Hammett
> >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> *From: *"Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
> >>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:
> af@af.afmug.com
> >>> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 1, 2021 8:55:03 PM
> >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
> >>>
> >>> Amazing how less dead that lady would be if this guy wasnt
> >>> handling a magic gun pointing it at people on a scene that
> >>> had no call to point at people in an industry where you dont
> >>> point firearms at people with a firearm you dont point at
> >>> anything youre not prepared to destroy... but sure, he didnt
> >>> pull the trigger. Totally trust a mope who beats people up
> >>> over parking spots
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -- AF mailing list
> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Steve Jones
> >>> December 1, 2021 at 19:55
> >>> Amazing how less dead that lady would be if this guy wasnt
> >>> handling a magic gun pointing it at people on a scene that
> >>> had no call to point at people in an industry where you dont
> >>> point firearms at people with a firearm you dont point at
> >>> anything youre not prepared to destroy... but sure, he didnt
> >>> pull the trigger. Totally trust a mope who beats people up
> >>> over parking spots
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> -- AF mailing list
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> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
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