Id be the best diplomat., people call me Steve The Diplomat Jones On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 2:06 PM Chuck McCown via AF <[email protected]> wrote:
> Steve, I think you ought to consider a career in in the US Foreign > Service. Perhaps at the US rep to the UN. Diplomacy is a hard commodity > to come by... > > *From:* Steve Jones > *Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 12:44 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin > > thats what the armorers attorney is saying. > That doesnt change any of the culpabilities though, it just adds another > person to the list. IF the bullets were changed while the firearms were on > the cart, thats still the armorers responsibility. Now baldwin as a > producer who was cutting corners had the armorer in another roll that > pulled her away from the weapon, but that still falls on her, shes > responsible for the firearms. > The other two still lose zero responsibility based on who put the bullet > in there, its irrelevant to their negligence > > On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 1:35 PM Mathew Howard <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Yes. I could give Baldwin a pass for not checking it himself, and >> delegating that responsibility to someone else since he's just a dumb >> actor, but that doesn't make him any less responsible. If he was too lazy >> or incompetent to check it himself, it's still his responsibility to make >> sure someone who was competent checked it for him. >> >> I also have to wonder if there's any chance somebody put live ammo in >> there intentionally... that would change things a bit. >> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 1:18 PM Jan-GAMs <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Movie sets for years have had fairly extensive rules on firearms, ammo >>> and the handling thereof. What needs to happen with Rust is to find out >>> how and why the rules were circumvented and find a way to make sure this >>> never happens again. If that includes jail for life for Alec Baldwin, >>> so be it. This shooting was no accident, it was a failure of 3 >>> individuals in a row to do their jobs and created a serious incident and >>> loss of life. There never should have been real ammo on the set, the >>> person handing the weapon to Baldwin should have verified what was in >>> the weapon and Baldwin should have checked. None of that obviously took >>> place. Someone put real ammo in that gun, anyone who knows how to put a >>> bullet into a revolver would have to know the bullets were not fake, >>> this could be a 4th person since it is obvious the other 3 involved did >>> not do their job. >>> >>> On 12/2/21 10:27, Jay Weekley wrote: >>> > Just watch any action movie such as John Wicke, Saving Private Ryan, >>> > Heat etc. There have been three deaths that I know of in all movies >>> > and TV series combined that I know of. Massive reform is not >>> required. >>> > >>> > Mathew Howard wrote: >>> >> Personally, I think all these calls for changes to how the film >>> >> industry handles weapons safety, banning guns from sets, etc. are >>> >> more than likely completely unnecessary. It appears to me that they >>> >> already have pretty strict safety procedures, which seem to have >>> >> worked pretty well for the last century or so. If the reports that >>> >> the safety procedures were repeatedly violated on that set are true >>> >> (to the point people were walking off the set because they thought it >>> >> was unsafe), that's the problem. The people that ignored the rules >>> >> and procedures need to be held accountable, one way or another. >>> >> Throwing a few people in prison is going to be pretty effective at >>> >> making sure the rules are followed in the future. Monetary loss, >>> >> which probably won't even significantly hurt the lackeys that are >>> >> probably actually responsible (aside from Baldwin himself) isn't >>> >> going to have the same effect. >>> >> >>> >> Accidents happen, and sometimes they're unavoidable, but this isn't >>> >> just a simple accident. This couldn't have happened if certain people >>> >> had actually done their job. I don't think it's terribly unreasonable >>> >> to hand a gun to some idiot actor and tell him to do whatever he >>> >> needs to do with it, even if he's clueless and might violate every >>> >> aspect of standard firearms safety - provided that gun passed through >>> >> the hands of several other people who know what they're doing and >>> >> verified there was no way it could hurt anybody. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 11:51 AM Chuck McCown via AF <[email protected] >>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> So, what does jail time fix? A deterrent? Sending a message? A >>> >> spanking for bad humans? >>> >> This was an accident. My wife wrecked a car 20 years ago and one >>> >> of my sons died. Should she have been put in jail? Accidents >>> >> happen. >>> >> The family has civil remedies because money is the only thing the >>> >> legal system can do to attempt to make one whole. >>> >> *From:* Steve Jones >>> >> *Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 10:43 AM >>> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin >>> >> firearm safety is a universal applied universally to firearms. >>> >> There is no different level of safety for different people. A >>> >> firearms inherent danger doesnt lessen depending on where its used >>> >> (maybe around flammable gasses). I hate cop out excuses for >>> >> mishandling firearms. Thats how we have gotten to a point where >>> >> people are afraid of an inanimate object. >>> >> Now, putting a firearm in a morons hand like alec baldwin adds to >>> >> the inherent danger, but thats beyond the basic principles of >>> >> firearm safety (the ones that dont change) >>> >> Multiple people need to see some jail time, starting with the >>> >> person operating the firearm, thats the person ultimately >>> >> responsible. The armorer, unless she can prove her sabatoge claim, >>> >> needs to be in a cell. the guy who picked it up and gave it to the >>> >> moron is just as culpable as twerp baldwin. Maybe they can be >>> >> cellmates and split their time with shower bubba. >>> >> This is a perfect example of why rule 1 exists, willfull ignorance >>> >> of that is called negligence. >>> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 11:12 AM Daniel White <[email protected]> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> I'm nervous around anyone with a firearm because on principle >>> >> I trust no one. I trust no firearm is unloaded unless I >>> >> maintain possession and cleared it myself. Active Duty/former >>> >> military is mostly an exception since you act without respect >>> >> there you can expect to have your face in the dirt pretty >>> quick. >>> >> >>> >> I get though that you can't expect actors to know all the >>> >> firearms they handle. The system they use is supposed to have >>> >> multiple fail safes so that the actor doesn't need to be a >>> >> weapons expert. I think the system works considering how few >>> >> on set accidents have happened... and obviously procedure >>> >> wasn't followed here. >>> >> >>> >> As I said, I think Alec is in some serious trouble as a >>> >> producer... but I doubt anything will happen criminally in >>> >> regards to him pulling the trigger. >>> >> >>> >> photograph >>> >> Daniel White >>> >> Co-Founder >>> >> phone:+1 (702) 470-2770 >>> >> direct:+1 (702) 470-2766 >>> >> >>> >>> Bill Prince >>> >>> December 2, 2021 at 09:55 >>> >>> >>> >>> You and me both. When I'm in the presence of people who (I >>> >>> feel) are a bit too cavalier with a firearm, I get very >>> >>> nervous, and my natural instinct is to get the hell away from >>> >>> that person. I was taught to treat every firearm as if it is >>> >>> loaded. My bolt action rifle, I keep the bolt stored separate >>> >>> from the rifle. I don't put it in until I am ready to use it. >>> >>> >>> >>> bp >>> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> >>> On 12/2/2021 7:46 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Chuck McCown via AF >>> >>> December 2, 2021 at 08:46 >>> >>> One junk news article has another person on the set saying >>> >>> his finger was on the trigger guard. >>> >>> Whether single or double action, a revolver takes some force >>> >>> to fire. >>> >>> I supposed if it was fully cocked and adjusted to have a hair >>> >>> trigger it is possible to be extra easy to touch off. >>> >>> I just cannot imagine someone handing me a firearm expecting >>> >>> me to wave it around in the general direction of people and >>> >>> me not checking it first. I would never trust someone’s word >>> >>> on that. >>> >>> *From:* Bill Prince >>> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 8:28 AM >>> >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin >>> >>> >>> >>> From where I'm sitting there had to be multiple screw ups. >>> >>> First is the security of the weapons. Based on what I've read >>> >>> (and I don't know how much of it is true), the weapons were >>> >>> on a table; they had been used for "target practice" during >>> >>> breaks; the armorer had declared them to be "cold" (in my >>> >>> mind that means there is nothing in the chambers; not blanks, >>> >>> not anything). >>> >>> >>> >>> If it was a dress rehearsal, I would expect that there were >>> >>> multiple cameras running. Digital film does not cost enough >>> >>> to matter, and it can be used to determine if they're getting >>> >>> the shots they want. >>> >>> >>> >>> bp >>> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> >>> On 12/2/2021 5:31 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- AF mailing list >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> Bill Prince >>> >>> December 2, 2021 at 08:28 >>> >>> >>> >>> From where I'm sitting there had to be multiple screw ups. >>> >>> First is the security of the weapons. Based on what I've read >>> >>> (and I don't know how much of it is true), the weapons were >>> >>> on a table; they had been used for "target practice" during >>> >>> breaks; the armorer had declared them to be "cold" (in my >>> >>> mind that means there is nothing in the chambers; not blanks, >>> >>> not anything). >>> >>> >>> >>> If it was a dress rehearsal, I would expect that there were >>> >>> multiple cameras running. Digital film does not cost enough >>> >>> to matter, and it can be used to determine if they're getting >>> >>> the shots they want. >>> >>> >>> >>> bp >>> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> >>> On 12/2/2021 5:31 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Mike Hammett >>> >>> December 2, 2021 at 06:31 >>> >>> Something a lot of people are leaving out is that movie set >>> >>> gun safety is likely quite different than real life gun >>> >>> safety. Likely, the same rules don't apply in both scenarios. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> >>> Mike Hammett >>> >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>< >>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>< >>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>< >>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>< >>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>< >>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> *From: *"Steve Jones" mailto:[email protected] >>> >>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto: >>> [email protected] >>> >>> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 1, 2021 8:55:03 PM >>> >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin >>> >>> >>> >>> Amazing how less dead that lady would be if this guy wasnt >>> >>> handling a magic gun pointing it at people on a scene that >>> >>> had no call to point at people in an industry where you dont >>> >>> point firearms at people with a firearm you dont point at >>> >>> anything youre not prepared to destroy... but sure, he didnt >>> >>> pull the trigger. Totally trust a mope who beats people up >>> >>> over parking spots >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- AF mailing list >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Steve Jones >>> >>> December 1, 2021 at 19:55 >>> >>> Amazing how less dead that lady would be if this guy wasnt >>> >>> handling a magic gun pointing it at people on a scene that >>> >>> had no call to point at people in an industry where you dont >>> >>> point firearms at people with a firearm you dont point at >>> >>> anything youre not prepared to destroy... but sure, he didnt >>> >>> pull the trigger. Totally trust a mope who beats people up >>> >>> over parking spots >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> -- AF mailing list >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >> -- AF mailing list >>> >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- AF mailing list >>> >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > ------------------------------ > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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