thats what the armorers attorney is saying.
That doesnt change any of the culpabilities though, it just adds
another person to the list. IF the bullets were changed while the
firearms were on the cart, thats still the armorers responsibility.
Now baldwin as a producer who was cutting corners had the armorer in
another roll that pulled her away from the weapon, but that still
falls on her, shes responsible for the firearms.
The other two still lose zero responsibility based on who put the
bullet in there, its irrelevant to their negligence
On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 1:35 PM Mathew Howard <[email protected]> wrote:
Yes. I could give Baldwin a pass for not checking it himself, and
delegating that responsibility to someone else since he's just a
dumb actor, but that doesn't make him any less responsible. If he
was too lazy or incompetent to check it himself, it's still his
responsibility to make sure someone who was competent checked it
for him.
I also have to wonder if there's any chance somebody put live ammo
in there intentionally... that would change things a bit.
On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 1:18 PM Jan-GAMs <[email protected]>
wrote:
Movie sets for years have had fairly extensive rules on
firearms, ammo
and the handling thereof. What needs to happen with Rust is
to find out
how and why the rules were circumvented and find a way to make
sure this
never happens again. If that includes jail for life for Alec
Baldwin,
so be it. This shooting was no accident, it was a failure of 3
individuals in a row to do their jobs and created a serious
incident and
loss of life. There never should have been real ammo on the
set, the
person handing the weapon to Baldwin should have verified what
was in
the weapon and Baldwin should have checked. None of that
obviously took
place. Someone put real ammo in that gun, anyone who knows
how to put a
bullet into a revolver would have to know the bullets were not
fake,
this could be a 4th person since it is obvious the other 3
involved did
not do their job.
On 12/2/21 10:27, Jay Weekley wrote:
> Just watch any action movie such as John Wicke, Saving
Private Ryan,
> Heat etc. There have been three deaths that I know of in all
movies
> and TV series combined that I know of. Massive reform is
not required.
>
> Mathew Howard wrote:
>> Personally, I think all these calls for changes to how the
film
>> industry handles weapons safety, banning guns from sets,
etc. are
>> more than likely completely unnecessary. It appears to me
that they
>> already have pretty strict safety procedures, which seem to
have
>> worked pretty well for the last century or so. If the
reports that
>> the safety procedures were repeatedly violated on that set
are true
>> (to the point people were walking off the set because they
thought it
>> was unsafe), that's the problem. The people that ignored
the rules
>> and procedures need to be held accountable, one way or
another.
>> Throwing a few people in prison is going to be pretty
effective at
>> making sure the rules are followed in the future. Monetary
loss,
>> which probably won't even significantly hurt the lackeys
that are
>> probably actually responsible (aside from Baldwin himself)
isn't
>> going to have the same effect.
>>
>> Accidents happen, and sometimes they're unavoidable, but
this isn't
>> just a simple accident. This couldn't have happened if
certain people
>> had actually done their job. I don't think it's terribly
unreasonable
>> to hand a gun to some idiot actor and tell him to do
whatever he
>> needs to do with it, even if he's clueless and might
violate every
>> aspect of standard firearms safety - provided that gun
passed through
>> the hands of several other people who know what they're
doing and
>> verified there was no way it could hurt anybody.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 11:51 AM Chuck McCown via AF
<[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>
>> So, what does jail time fix? A deterrent? Sending a
message? A
>> spanking for bad humans?
>> This was an accident. My wife wrecked a car 20 years
ago and one
>> of my sons died. Should she have been put in jail?
Accidents
>> happen.
>> The family has civil remedies because money is the only
thing the
>> legal system can do to attempt to make one whole.
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 10:43 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
>> firearm safety is a universal applied universally to
firearms.
>> There is no different level of safety for different
people. A
>> firearms inherent danger doesnt lessen depending on
where its used
>> (maybe around flammable gasses). I hate cop out excuses for
>> mishandling firearms. Thats how we have gotten to a
point where
>> people are afraid of an inanimate object.
>> Now, putting a firearm in a morons hand like alec
baldwin adds to
>> the inherent danger, but thats beyond the basic
principles of
>> firearm safety (the ones that dont change)
>> Multiple people need to see some jail time, starting
with the
>> person operating the firearm, thats the person ultimately
>> responsible. The armorer, unless she can prove her
sabatoge claim,
>> needs to be in a cell. the guy who picked it up and
gave it to the
>> moron is just as culpable as twerp baldwin. Maybe they
can be
>> cellmates and split their time with shower bubba.
>> This is a perfect example of why rule 1 exists,
willfull ignorance
>> of that is called negligence.
>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 11:12 AM Daniel White
<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm nervous around anyone with a firearm because on
principle
>> I trust no one. I trust no firearm is unloaded
unless I
>> maintain possession and cleared it myself. Active
Duty/former
>> military is mostly an exception since you act
without respect
>> there you can expect to have your face in the dirt
pretty quick.
>>
>> I get though that you can't expect actors to know
all the
>> firearms they handle. The system they use is
supposed to have
>> multiple fail safes so that the actor doesn't need
to be a
>> weapons expert. I think the system works
considering how few
>> on set accidents have happened... and obviously
procedure
>> wasn't followed here.
>>
>> As I said, I think Alec is in some serious trouble as a
>> producer... but I doubt anything will happen
criminally in
>> regards to him pulling the trigger.
>>
>> photograph
>> Daniel White
>> Co-Founder
>> phone:+1 (702) 470-2770
>> direct:+1 (702) 470-2766
>>
>>> Bill Prince
>>> December 2, 2021 at 09:55
>>>
>>> You and me both. When I'm in the presence of
people who (I
>>> feel) are a bit too cavalier with a firearm, I get
very
>>> nervous, and my natural instinct is to get the
hell away from
>>> that person. I was taught to treat every firearm
as if it is
>>> loaded. My bolt action rifle, I keep the bolt
stored separate
>>> from the rifle. I don't put it in until I am ready
to use it.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>> On 12/2/2021 7:46 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck McCown via AF
>>> December 2, 2021 at 08:46
>>> One junk news article has another person on the
set saying
>>> his finger was on the trigger guard.
>>> Whether single or double action, a revolver takes
some force
>>> to fire.
>>> I supposed if it was fully cocked and adjusted to
have a hair
>>> trigger it is possible to be extra easy to touch off.
>>> I just cannot imagine someone handing me a firearm
expecting
>>> me to wave it around in the general direction of
people and
>>> me not checking it first. I would never trust
someone’s word
>>> on that.
>>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 8:28 AM
>>> *To:* [email protected]
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
>>>
>>> From where I'm sitting there had to be multiple
screw ups.
>>> First is the security of the weapons. Based on
what I've read
>>> (and I don't know how much of it is true), the
weapons were
>>> on a table; they had been used for "target
practice" during
>>> breaks; the armorer had declared them to be "cold"
(in my
>>> mind that means there is nothing in the chambers;
not blanks,
>>> not anything).
>>>
>>> If it was a dress rehearsal, I would expect that
there were
>>> multiple cameras running. Digital film does not
cost enough
>>> to matter, and it can be used to determine if
they're getting
>>> the shots they want.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>> On 12/2/2021 5:31 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> -- AF mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> Bill Prince
>>> December 2, 2021 at 08:28
>>>
>>> From where I'm sitting there had to be multiple
screw ups.
>>> First is the security of the weapons. Based on
what I've read
>>> (and I don't know how much of it is true), the
weapons were
>>> on a table; they had been used for "target
practice" during
>>> breaks; the armorer had declared them to be "cold"
(in my
>>> mind that means there is nothing in the chambers;
not blanks,
>>> not anything).
>>>
>>> If it was a dress rehearsal, I would expect that
there were
>>> multiple cameras running. Digital film does not
cost enough
>>> to matter, and it can be used to determine if
they're getting
>>> the shots they want.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>> On 12/2/2021 5:31 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> December 2, 2021 at 06:31
>>> Something a lot of people are leaving out is that
movie set
>>> gun safety is likely quite different than real
life gun
>>> safety. Likely, the same rules don't apply in both
scenarios.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
<http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From: *"Steve Jones" mailto:[email protected]
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
mailto:[email protected]
>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 1, 2021 8:55:03 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
>>>
>>> Amazing how less dead that lady would be if this
guy wasnt
>>> handling a magic gun pointing it at people on a
scene that
>>> had no call to point at people in an industry
where you dont
>>> point firearms at people with a firearm you dont
point at
>>> anything youre not prepared to destroy... but
sure, he didnt
>>> pull the trigger. Totally trust a mope who beats
people up
>>> over parking spots
>>>
>>>
>>> -- AF mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve Jones
>>> December 1, 2021 at 19:55
>>> Amazing how less dead that lady would be if this
guy wasnt
>>> handling a magic gun pointing it at people on a
scene that
>>> had no call to point at people in an industry
where you dont
>>> point firearms at people with a firearm you dont
point at
>>> anything youre not prepared to destroy... but
sure, he didnt
>>> pull the trigger. Totally trust a mope who beats
people up
>>> over parking spots
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- AF mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -- AF mailing list
>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> -- AF mailing list
>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>
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