original reporting was that it was contract/safety (more hours, etc), then
as the scramble for justifying the shooting gained traction the "media"
started injecting "what they heard" There was target practice taking place
with the firearms, the firearm randomly went off 3 times, the staff left
because of the gun safety,, yada yada yada, rittenhousing the narrative in
the preferred favor, facts be damned. the machine is in full run now with
the interview and all that, form the narrative,
Reporting is not journalism, so what is reported can almost always be
assumed to have been rittenhoused moving forward, especially when its an
uber leftist needing a positive tilt
On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 3:15 PM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It was reported at one point that the walk-off was partly related to gun
> incidents... whether or not that's true, I have no idea.
>
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 3:06 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I thought the walk-off was some kind of labor dispute, but I have not
>> been paying particularly close attention.
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>> On 12/2/2021 12:44 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>>
>> Alec Baldwin being both the actor who held the gun AND the film producer
>> has double the responsibility in this case. If he shirked those
>> responsibilities that is no accident in my book. Not intentional
>> necessarily but certainly an unavoidable accident.
>>
>>
>>
>> Didn’t I hear (and from the media mind you so that subject to falsities
>> and misinterpretation) that part of the issue about the walk off was due to
>> other gun incidents earlier in the production filming? As the producer
>> Baldwin would be very responsible for those processes, procedures and
>> adherence to the rules for filming. That alone would be negligence. There
>> is likely a lot to this story we don’t know in the school of public opinion
>> and knowledge and I am sure everyone was told to lawyer up and shut-up
>> right after it happened.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tragic result no doubt, a horrible tragic result. Rules and regulations
>> are no good if people don’t follow them or if they feel entitled and they
>> don’t apply to them. Elitisms suck and there seems to be a lot of that in
>> the world these days. The element of human greed or the feeling that
>> someone is getting more because of avoidance of rules and such is part of
>> the human experience. Communism certainly proved that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On
>> Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 3:28 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree, 3 people totally fucked-up, but I suspect there is a 4th person
>> who put the live ammo in the gun. Just because 3 f'ed-up, doesn't make
>> them less responsible, I think these people should get neglicent homicide
>> charges and the 4th person if found should get a homicide and attempted
>> homicide charge. All of them should get time in jail.
>>
>> On 12/2/21 11:44, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> thats what the armorers attorney is saying.
>>
>> That doesnt change any of the culpabilities though, it just adds another
>> person to the list. IF the bullets were changed while the firearms were on
>> the cart, thats still the armorers responsibility. Now baldwin as a
>> producer who was cutting corners had the armorer in another roll that
>> pulled her away from the weapon, but that still falls on her, shes
>> responsible for the firearms.
>>
>> The other two still lose zero responsibility based on who put the bullet
>> in there, its irrelevant to their negligence
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 1:35 PM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes. I could give Baldwin a pass for not checking it himself, and
>> delegating that responsibility to someone else since he's just a dumb
>> actor, but that doesn't make him any less responsible. If he was too lazy
>> or incompetent to check it himself, it's still his responsibility to make
>> sure someone who was competent checked it for him.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also have to wonder if there's any chance somebody put live ammo in
>> there intentionally... that would change things a bit.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 1:18 PM Jan-GAMs <j.vank...@grnacres.net> wrote:
>>
>> Movie sets for years have had fairly extensive rules on firearms, ammo
>> and the handling thereof. What needs to happen with Rust is to find out
>> how and why the rules were circumvented and find a way to make sure this
>> never happens again. If that includes jail for life for Alec Baldwin,
>> so be it. This shooting was no accident, it was a failure of 3
>> individuals in a row to do their jobs and created a serious incident and
>> loss of life. There never should have been real ammo on the set, the
>> person handing the weapon to Baldwin should have verified what was in
>> the weapon and Baldwin should have checked. None of that obviously took
>> place. Someone put real ammo in that gun, anyone who knows how to put a
>> bullet into a revolver would have to know the bullets were not fake,
>> this could be a 4th person since it is obvious the other 3 involved did
>> not do their job.
>>
>> On 12/2/21 10:27, Jay Weekley wrote:
>> > Just watch any action movie such as John Wicke, Saving Private Ryan,
>> > Heat etc. There have been three deaths that I know of in all movies
>> > and TV series combined that I know of. Massive reform is not required.
>> >
>> > Mathew Howard wrote:
>> >> Personally, I think all these calls for changes to how the film
>> >> industry handles weapons safety, banning guns from sets, etc. are
>> >> more than likely completely unnecessary. It appears to me that they
>> >> already have pretty strict safety procedures, which seem to have
>> >> worked pretty well for the last century or so. If the reports that
>> >> the safety procedures were repeatedly violated on that set are true
>> >> (to the point people were walking off the set because they thought it
>> >> was unsafe), that's the problem. The people that ignored the rules
>> >> and procedures need to be held accountable, one way or another.
>> >> Throwing a few people in prison is going to be pretty effective at
>> >> making sure the rules are followed in the future. Monetary loss,
>> >> which probably won't even significantly hurt the lackeys that are
>> >> probably actually responsible (aside from Baldwin himself) isn't
>> >> going to have the same effect.
>> >>
>> >> Accidents happen, and sometimes they're unavoidable, but this isn't
>> >> just a simple accident. This couldn't have happened if certain people
>> >> had actually done their job. I don't think it's terribly unreasonable
>> >> to hand a gun to some idiot actor and tell him to do whatever he
>> >> needs to do with it, even if he's clueless and might violate every
>> >> aspect of standard firearms safety - provided that gun passed through
>> >> the hands of several other people who know what they're doing and
>> >> verified there was no way it could hurt anybody.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 11:51 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com
>> >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> So, what does jail time fix? A deterrent? Sending a message? A
>> >> spanking for bad humans?
>> >> This was an accident. My wife wrecked a car 20 years ago and one
>> >> of my sons died. Should she have been put in jail? Accidents
>> >> happen.
>> >> The family has civil remedies because money is the only thing the
>> >> legal system can do to attempt to make one whole.
>> >> *From:* Steve Jones
>> >> *Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 10:43 AM
>> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
>> >> firearm safety is a universal applied universally to firearms.
>> >> There is no different level of safety for different people. A
>> >> firearms inherent danger doesnt lessen depending on where its used
>> >> (maybe around flammable gasses). I hate cop out excuses for
>> >> mishandling firearms. Thats how we have gotten to a point where
>> >> people are afraid of an inanimate object.
>> >> Now, putting a firearm in a morons hand like alec baldwin adds to
>> >> the inherent danger, but thats beyond the basic principles of
>> >> firearm safety (the ones that dont change)
>> >> Multiple people need to see some jail time, starting with the
>> >> person operating the firearm, thats the person ultimately
>> >> responsible. The armorer, unless she can prove her sabatoge claim,
>> >> needs to be in a cell. the guy who picked it up and gave it to the
>> >> moron is just as culpable as twerp baldwin. Maybe they can be
>> >> cellmates and split their time with shower bubba.
>> >> This is a perfect example of why rule 1 exists, willfull ignorance
>> >> of that is called negligence.
>> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 11:12 AM Daniel White <dwh...@atheral.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I'm nervous around anyone with a firearm because on principle
>> >> I trust no one. I trust no firearm is unloaded unless I
>> >> maintain possession and cleared it myself. Active Duty/former
>> >> military is mostly an exception since you act without respect
>> >> there you can expect to have your face in the dirt pretty
>> quick.
>> >>
>> >> I get though that you can't expect actors to know all the
>> >> firearms they handle. The system they use is supposed to have
>> >> multiple fail safes so that the actor doesn't need to be a
>> >> weapons expert. I think the system works considering how few
>> >> on set accidents have happened... and obviously procedure
>> >> wasn't followed here.
>> >>
>> >> As I said, I think Alec is in some serious trouble as a
>> >> producer... but I doubt anything will happen criminally in
>> >> regards to him pulling the trigger.
>> >>
>> >> photograph
>> >> Daniel White
>> >> Co-Founder
>> >> phone:+1 (702) 470-2770
>> >> direct:+1 (702) 470-2766
>> >>
>> >>> Bill Prince
>> >>> December 2, 2021 at 09:55
>> >>>
>> >>> You and me both. When I'm in the presence of people who (I
>> >>> feel) are a bit too cavalier with a firearm, I get very
>> >>> nervous, and my natural instinct is to get the hell away from
>> >>> that person. I was taught to treat every firearm as if it is
>> >>> loaded. My bolt action rifle, I keep the bolt stored separate
>> >>> from the rifle. I don't put it in until I am ready to use it.
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>> >>> On 12/2/2021 7:46 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Chuck McCown via AF
>> >>> December 2, 2021 at 08:46
>> >>> One junk news article has another person on the set saying
>> >>> his finger was on the trigger guard.
>> >>> Whether single or double action, a revolver takes some force
>> >>> to fire.
>> >>> I supposed if it was fully cocked and adjusted to have a hair
>> >>> trigger it is possible to be extra easy to touch off.
>> >>> I just cannot imagine someone handing me a firearm expecting
>> >>> me to wave it around in the general direction of people and
>> >>> me not checking it first. I would never trust someone’s word
>> >>> on that.
>> >>> *From:* Bill Prince
>> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 8:28 AM
>> >>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
>> >>>
>> >>> From where I'm sitting there had to be multiple screw ups.
>> >>> First is the security of the weapons. Based on what I've read
>> >>> (and I don't know how much of it is true), the weapons were
>> >>> on a table; they had been used for "target practice" during
>> >>> breaks; the armorer had declared them to be "cold" (in my
>> >>> mind that means there is nothing in the chambers; not blanks,
>> >>> not anything).
>> >>>
>> >>> If it was a dress rehearsal, I would expect that there were
>> >>> multiple cameras running. Digital film does not cost enough
>> >>> to matter, and it can be used to determine if they're getting
>> >>> the shots they want.
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>> >>> On 12/2/2021 5:31 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>> >>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>
>> >>> -- AF mailing list
>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>> Bill Prince
>> >>> December 2, 2021 at 08:28
>> >>>
>> >>> From where I'm sitting there had to be multiple screw ups.
>> >>> First is the security of the weapons. Based on what I've read
>> >>> (and I don't know how much of it is true), the weapons were
>> >>> on a table; they had been used for "target practice" during
>> >>> breaks; the armorer had declared them to be "cold" (in my
>> >>> mind that means there is nothing in the chambers; not blanks,
>> >>> not anything).
>> >>>
>> >>> If it was a dress rehearsal, I would expect that there were
>> >>> multiple cameras running. Digital film does not cost enough
>> >>> to matter, and it can be used to determine if they're getting
>> >>> the shots they want.
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>> >>> On 12/2/2021 5:31 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Mike Hammett
>> >>> December 2, 2021 at 06:31
>> >>> Something a lot of people are leaving out is that movie set
>> >>> gun safety is likely quite different than real life gun
>> >>> safety. Likely, the same rules don't apply in both scenarios.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----
>> >>> Mike Hammett
>> >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><
>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> >>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>
>> >>> *From: *"Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>> >>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:
>> af@af.afmug.com
>> >>> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 1, 2021 8:55:03 PM
>> >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
>> >>>
>> >>> Amazing how less dead that lady would be if this guy wasnt
>> >>> handling a magic gun pointing it at people on a scene that
>> >>> had no call to point at people in an industry where you dont
>> >>> point firearms at people with a firearm you dont point at
>> >>> anything youre not prepared to destroy... but sure, he didnt
>> >>> pull the trigger. Totally trust a mope who beats people up
>> >>> over parking spots
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -- AF mailing list
>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Steve Jones
>> >>> December 1, 2021 at 19:55
>> >>> Amazing how less dead that lady would be if this guy wasnt
>> >>> handling a magic gun pointing it at people on a scene that
>> >>> had no call to point at people in an industry where you dont
>> >>> point firearms at people with a firearm you dont point at
>> >>> anything youre not prepared to destroy... but sure, he didnt
>> >>> pull the trigger. Totally trust a mope who beats people up
>> >>> over parking spots
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> -- AF mailing list
>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >> -- AF mailing list
>> >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
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