Ill bring penicillin to the UN with me
On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 3:04 PM Bill Prince <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> STD Jones for short.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 12/2/2021 12:46 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Id be the best diplomat., people call me Steve The Diplomat Jones
>
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 2:06 PM Chuck McCown via AF <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Steve, I think you ought to consider a career in in the US Foreign
>> Service. Perhaps at the US rep to the UN. Diplomacy is a hard commodity
>> to come by...
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 12:44 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
>>
>> thats what the armorers attorney is saying.
>> That doesnt change any of the culpabilities though, it just adds another
>> person to the list. IF the bullets were changed while the firearms were on
>> the cart, thats still the armorers responsibility. Now baldwin as a
>> producer who was cutting corners had the armorer in another roll that
>> pulled her away from the weapon, but that still falls on her, shes
>> responsible for the firearms.
>> The other two still lose zero responsibility based on who put the bullet
>> in there, its irrelevant to their negligence
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 1:35 PM Mathew Howard <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. I could give Baldwin a pass for not checking it himself, and
>>> delegating that responsibility to someone else since he's just a dumb
>>> actor, but that doesn't make him any less responsible. If he was too lazy
>>> or incompetent to check it himself, it's still his responsibility to make
>>> sure someone who was competent checked it for him.
>>>
>>> I also have to wonder if there's any chance somebody put live ammo in
>>> there intentionally... that would change things a bit.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 1:18 PM Jan-GAMs <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Movie sets for years have had fairly extensive rules on firearms, ammo
>>>> and the handling thereof. What needs to happen with Rust is to find
>>>> out
>>>> how and why the rules were circumvented and find a way to make sure
>>>> this
>>>> never happens again. If that includes jail for life for Alec Baldwin,
>>>> so be it. This shooting was no accident, it was a failure of 3
>>>> individuals in a row to do their jobs and created a serious incident
>>>> and
>>>> loss of life. There never should have been real ammo on the set, the
>>>> person handing the weapon to Baldwin should have verified what was in
>>>> the weapon and Baldwin should have checked. None of that obviously
>>>> took
>>>> place. Someone put real ammo in that gun, anyone who knows how to put
>>>> a
>>>> bullet into a revolver would have to know the bullets were not fake,
>>>> this could be a 4th person since it is obvious the other 3 involved did
>>>> not do their job.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/2/21 10:27, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>>> > Just watch any action movie such as John Wicke, Saving Private Ryan,
>>>> > Heat etc. There have been three deaths that I know of in all movies
>>>> > and TV series combined that I know of. Massive reform is not
>>>> required.
>>>> >
>>>> > Mathew Howard wrote:
>>>> >> Personally, I think all these calls for changes to how the film
>>>> >> industry handles weapons safety, banning guns from sets, etc. are
>>>> >> more than likely completely unnecessary. It appears to me that they
>>>> >> already have pretty strict safety procedures, which seem to have
>>>> >> worked pretty well for the last century or so. If the reports that
>>>> >> the safety procedures were repeatedly violated on that set are true
>>>> >> (to the point people were walking off the set because they thought
>>>> it
>>>> >> was unsafe), that's the problem. The people that ignored the rules
>>>> >> and procedures need to be held accountable, one way or another.
>>>> >> Throwing a few people in prison is going to be pretty effective at
>>>> >> making sure the rules are followed in the future. Monetary loss,
>>>> >> which probably won't even significantly hurt the lackeys that are
>>>> >> probably actually responsible (aside from Baldwin himself) isn't
>>>> >> going to have the same effect.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Accidents happen, and sometimes they're unavoidable, but this isn't
>>>> >> just a simple accident. This couldn't have happened if certain
>>>> people
>>>> >> had actually done their job. I don't think it's terribly
>>>> unreasonable
>>>> >> to hand a gun to some idiot actor and tell him to do whatever he
>>>> >> needs to do with it, even if he's clueless and might violate every
>>>> >> aspect of standard firearms safety - provided that gun passed
>>>> through
>>>> >> the hands of several other people who know what they're doing and
>>>> >> verified there was no way it could hurt anybody.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 11:51 AM Chuck McCown via AF <[email protected]
>>>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> So, what does jail time fix? A deterrent? Sending a message? A
>>>> >> spanking for bad humans?
>>>> >> This was an accident. My wife wrecked a car 20 years ago and one
>>>> >> of my sons died. Should she have been put in jail? Accidents
>>>> >> happen.
>>>> >> The family has civil remedies because money is the only thing the
>>>> >> legal system can do to attempt to make one whole.
>>>> >> *From:* Steve Jones
>>>> >> *Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 10:43 AM
>>>> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
>>>> >> firearm safety is a universal applied universally to firearms.
>>>> >> There is no different level of safety for different people. A
>>>> >> firearms inherent danger doesnt lessen depending on where its
>>>> used
>>>> >> (maybe around flammable gasses). I hate cop out excuses for
>>>> >> mishandling firearms. Thats how we have gotten to a point where
>>>> >> people are afraid of an inanimate object.
>>>> >> Now, putting a firearm in a morons hand like alec baldwin adds to
>>>> >> the inherent danger, but thats beyond the basic principles of
>>>> >> firearm safety (the ones that dont change)
>>>> >> Multiple people need to see some jail time, starting with the
>>>> >> person operating the firearm, thats the person ultimately
>>>> >> responsible. The armorer, unless she can prove her sabatoge
>>>> claim,
>>>> >> needs to be in a cell. the guy who picked it up and gave it to
>>>> the
>>>> >> moron is just as culpable as twerp baldwin. Maybe they can be
>>>> >> cellmates and split their time with shower bubba.
>>>> >> This is a perfect example of why rule 1 exists, willfull
>>>> ignorance
>>>> >> of that is called negligence.
>>>> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 11:12 AM Daniel White <[email protected]
>>>> >
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm nervous around anyone with a firearm because on principle
>>>> >> I trust no one. I trust no firearm is unloaded unless I
>>>> >> maintain possession and cleared it myself. Active
>>>> Duty/former
>>>> >> military is mostly an exception since you act without respect
>>>> >> there you can expect to have your face in the dirt pretty
>>>> quick.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I get though that you can't expect actors to know all the
>>>> >> firearms they handle. The system they use is supposed to
>>>> have
>>>> >> multiple fail safes so that the actor doesn't need to be a
>>>> >> weapons expert. I think the system works considering how few
>>>> >> on set accidents have happened... and obviously procedure
>>>> >> wasn't followed here.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> As I said, I think Alec is in some serious trouble as a
>>>> >> producer... but I doubt anything will happen criminally in
>>>> >> regards to him pulling the trigger.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> photograph
>>>> >> Daniel White
>>>> >> Co-Founder
>>>> >> phone:+1 (702) 470-2770
>>>> >> direct:+1 (702) 470-2766
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Bill Prince
>>>> >>> December 2, 2021 at 09:55
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> You and me both. When I'm in the presence of people who (I
>>>> >>> feel) are a bit too cavalier with a firearm, I get very
>>>> >>> nervous, and my natural instinct is to get the hell away
>>>> from
>>>> >>> that person. I was taught to treat every firearm as if it is
>>>> >>> loaded. My bolt action rifle, I keep the bolt stored
>>>> separate
>>>> >>> from the rifle. I don't put it in until I am ready to use
>>>> it.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> bp
>>>> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>> >>> On 12/2/2021 7:46 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Chuck McCown via AF
>>>> >>> December 2, 2021 at 08:46
>>>> >>> One junk news article has another person on the set saying
>>>> >>> his finger was on the trigger guard.
>>>> >>> Whether single or double action, a revolver takes some force
>>>> >>> to fire.
>>>> >>> I supposed if it was fully cocked and adjusted to have a
>>>> hair
>>>> >>> trigger it is possible to be extra easy to touch off.
>>>> >>> I just cannot imagine someone handing me a firearm expecting
>>>> >>> me to wave it around in the general direction of people and
>>>> >>> me not checking it first. I would never trust someone’s
>>>> word
>>>> >>> on that.
>>>> >>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>>> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 8:28 AM
>>>> >>> *To:* [email protected]
>>>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> From where I'm sitting there had to be multiple screw ups.
>>>> >>> First is the security of the weapons. Based on what I've
>>>> read
>>>> >>> (and I don't know how much of it is true), the weapons were
>>>> >>> on a table; they had been used for "target practice" during
>>>> >>> breaks; the armorer had declared them to be "cold" (in my
>>>> >>> mind that means there is nothing in the chambers; not
>>>> blanks,
>>>> >>> not anything).
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> If it was a dress rehearsal, I would expect that there were
>>>> >>> multiple cameras running. Digital film does not cost enough
>>>> >>> to matter, and it can be used to determine if they're
>>>> getting
>>>> >>> the shots they want.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> bp
>>>> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>> >>> On 12/2/2021 5:31 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> -- AF mailing list
>>>> >>> [email protected]
>>>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>> >>> Bill Prince
>>>> >>> December 2, 2021 at 08:28
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> From where I'm sitting there had to be multiple screw ups.
>>>> >>> First is the security of the weapons. Based on what I've
>>>> read
>>>> >>> (and I don't know how much of it is true), the weapons were
>>>> >>> on a table; they had been used for "target practice" during
>>>> >>> breaks; the armorer had declared them to be "cold" (in my
>>>> >>> mind that means there is nothing in the chambers; not
>>>> blanks,
>>>> >>> not anything).
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> If it was a dress rehearsal, I would expect that there were
>>>> >>> multiple cameras running. Digital film does not cost enough
>>>> >>> to matter, and it can be used to determine if they're
>>>> getting
>>>> >>> the shots they want.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> bp
>>>> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>> >>> On 12/2/2021 5:31 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Mike Hammett
>>>> >>> December 2, 2021 at 06:31
>>>> >>> Something a lot of people are leaving out is that movie set
>>>> >>> gun safety is likely quite different than real life gun
>>>> >>> safety. Likely, the same rules don't apply in both
>>>> scenarios.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> -----
>>>> >>> Mike Hammett
>>>> >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><
>>>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
>>>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><
>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
>>>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>> >>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> *From: *"Steve Jones" mailto:[email protected]
>>>> >>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> >>> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 1, 2021 8:55:03 PM
>>>> >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Amazing how less dead that lady would be if this guy wasnt
>>>> >>> handling a magic gun pointing it at people on a scene that
>>>> >>> had no call to point at people in an industry where you dont
>>>> >>> point firearms at people with a firearm you dont point at
>>>> >>> anything youre not prepared to destroy... but sure, he didnt
>>>> >>> pull the trigger. Totally trust a mope who beats people up
>>>> >>> over parking spots
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> -- AF mailing list
>>>> >>> [email protected]
>>>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Steve Jones
>>>> >>> December 1, 2021 at 19:55
>>>> >>> Amazing how less dead that lady would be if this guy wasnt
>>>> >>> handling a magic gun pointing it at people on a scene that
>>>> >>> had no call to point at people in an industry where you dont
>>>> >>> point firearms at people with a firearm you dont point at
>>>> >>> anything youre not prepared to destroy... but sure, he didnt
>>>> >>> pull the trigger. Totally trust a mope who beats people up
>>>> >>> over parking spots
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> -- AF mailing list
>>>> >> [email protected]
>>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >> -- AF mailing list
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>>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>> >> -- AF mailing list
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>>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>>
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