Robert,
Are we to assume the only good men/women are from MN? This is not happening in
other states. Yes the are protest in other states, but why are they so violent
in MN? ICE is functioning and arresting people all over the county.
--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:[email protected]
Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com
------
Sunday, January 25, 2026, 9:59:10 PM, you wrote:
> At the conference table and in the minds of men, the free world’s cause is
> strengthened because it is just. But it is strengthened even more by the
> dedicated efforts of free men and free nations. As the great parliamentarian
> Edmund Burke said, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for
> good men to do nothing.”
> John F. Kennedy 1961
> Because these people know what happened in Germany because people stayed in
> their homes and didn't care. There would be no evidence of what happened to
> Alexx except the lies of the administration if the others had not been there
> to video it. They have to be there because of the lack of truth otherwise.
> They risk and lose their lives to protect your rights.
> On 1/25/26 6:14 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF wrote:
>> Jason,
>>
>> I go back to my original question. Why was he even there? What possesses
>> an intelligent man to pick up his gun and go out in sub-zero temperatures to
>> observe? All of these observers must now know there is an increased chance
>> they will be injured or even killed. Why would you voluntary go into that
>> type of situation.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Mark mailto:[email protected]
>> Myakka Communications
>> www.Myakka.com
>> ------
>> Sunday, January 25, 2026, 8:20:11 PM, you wrote:
>>> They were spraying him with pepper spray before they even took him to the
>>> ground. This is not a FAFO situation. They do not have a right to shoot
>>> anyone because they have a holstered weapon on them. These guys are
>>> amateurs and should never have been given a weapon and any authority.
>>> On Sun, Jan 25, 2026, 7:13 PM Chuck <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> He violently resisted arrest. You always are in the wrong and you always
>>>> lose. Add gun, dead. Simple. I see the cops taking a magazine, not a
>>>> gun. FAFO. Dont in LEA.
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> On Jan 25, 2026, at 5:58 PM, Jason McKemie
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There is zero evidence that Pretti was picking a fight. He had a handgun
>>>>> on him, it was holstered until the ICE officer removed it himself. Where
>>>>> are the 2nd amendment people on this? Now carrying a weapon (legally,
>>>>> mind you) around law enforcement is justification for deadly force? I've
>>>>> watched a couple of the recordings and the administration is outright
>>>>> lying about this. Full stop.
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 25, 2026, 5:49 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> Trump Bad, Trump Good, ICE Bad, ICE Good, Renee Bystander, Renee
>>>>>> Domestic Terrorist, Alex Bystander, Alex Domestic Terrorist. It is
>>>>>> pointless to discuss these topics. People are too far entrenched in
>>>>>> their opinions. Nothing one side can say will ever change the mind of
>>>>>> the other side. The two sides will watch the exact same videos and come
>>>>>> up with polar opposite opinions of what happened. Even if something is
>>>>>> proven as complete fact by one side, it will be dismissed as false news
>>>>>> or a cover up by the other side.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My question is why Minnesota, specifically Minneapolis and St. Paul.
>>>>>> Why has it become so violent and filled with hate just there. We do not
>>>>>> see this level of hate anywhere else in the country. ICE seems to be
>>>>>> making arrests without incident all around the rest of the country.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What makes an intelligent man (ICU Nurse) decide he is going to grab his
>>>>>> gun and go fight ICE agents. What happen to this man's thought process?
>>>>>> Does anyone here have that level of hate where they will decide to grab
>>>>>> their gun and venture out in sub-zero weather looking to pick a fight
>>>>>> with armed ICE agents?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When did it become acceptable to storm a church during a service?
>>>>>> Protest outside if you want, but storming in during a service. Where
>>>>>> did this hate come from. Trump or Waltz, depends what side you are on.
>>>>>> I pretty sure the people storming the church had more hate than the
>>>>>> people inside the church in this case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The ICE agents are there to do a job, like it or not. I don't
>>>>>> understand when it became acceptable to interfere in an arrest that you
>>>>>> know nothing about. You may agree or disagree with Trump's policies,
>>>>>> but that does not mean you can interfere with law enforcement doing
>>>>>> their job. Like it or not, believe it or not, they are arresting some
>>>>>> bad people. They also are making some questionable arrests. But being
>>>>>> an "observer" that knows nothing about what the arrest is about and
>>>>>> interfering in not the answer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is only going to get worst. The ICE agents are very skittish with
>>>>>> good reason. One could argue that in most situations they may be in
>>>>>> fear of their lives. It is just a matter of time before an ICE agent is
>>>>>> killed. There will be more "observer" deaths. Some will celebrate while
>>>>>> others rage. End of the day it is very sad whenever someone dies for no
>>>>>> good reason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some will say Trump just has to back down, others will say Waltz needs
>>>>>> to get control of his State. I fear neither of these men will do this
>>>>>> and more deaths will result.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blame whoever you want, continue the name calling, continue the fear
>>>>>> mongering, fuel the hate, It is truly a sad time in our history.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Mark mailto:[email protected]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------
>>>>>> Sunday, January 25, 2026, 3:01:58 PM, you wrote:
>>>>>>> So what I am hearing from you, Chuck, between the lines, is that you
>>>>>>> abet the murder of Alex Pretti? That the actions of ICE in MN is ok
>>>>>>> because of the premise of removing "illegal" immigrants?
>>>>>>> Come on I thought you understood that the legitimacy of a small good
>>>>>>> isn't justification of evil. The lies that were put forth right off
>>>>>>> the bat in the murder of Alex are not, in any circumstance,
>>>>>>> justifiable. Not to someone who truly believes the Mormon religion.
>>>>>>> I am not Mormon, but a large part of my family is. And they are some
>>>>>>> of the best people I am related to.
>>>>>>> I stay in this shit filled room because I believe that just leaving
>>>>>>> doesn't do anything to clean up the crap.
>>>>>>> Your saying that part of what DJT does justifies the rest of what he
>>>>>>> does sounds like those who looked the other way in Germany in 1936.
>>>>>>> OH look he has saved the economy and built the autobahn. Look deeper
>>>>>>> into the government and economy that Hitler built and you find it was
>>>>>>> all debt financing and without the war is was just about to destroy
>>>>>>> itself. And guess what is going on in the US right now. EXACTLY THE
>>>>>>> SAME.
>>>>>>> I consider myself centrist. But there is now and never a way to
>>>>>>> justify the way that ICE is violating the constitution and the blessing
>>>>>>> of that by the current administration. This has nothing to do with
>>>>>>> previous administrations except for the contribution that they had in
>>>>>>> creating justifications for people to create what we have Now.. Now
>>>>>>> we have to be clear that what is going on is NOT ok. And being
>>>>>>> indifferent to it is abetting it. Going and saying that people who
>>>>>>> are being aghast at what is going on have TDS is saying you are on the
>>>>>>> side of the federal government taking people filming or helping someone
>>>>>>> up off the street and killing them is a country that is good with you.
>>>>>>> Basically you are agreeing with the tenants of a National Socialist
>>>>>>> Workers Party. And that anyone who isn't is subject to Jail and
>>>>>>> death. You can kick me out of this group if you want but taunting me
>>>>>>> to leave or shut up isn't going to work. That's what bullies do.
>>>>>>> I am directing this to you, Chuck, because you are/were the heart of
>>>>>>> this list. The members here are hear because of what you gathered
>>>>>>> around you, very much including me. To find out you bless someone of
>>>>>>> what DJT does makes it alright for what else he does sounds like the
>>>>>>> teasings of the devil have embraced you. And that makes me sad.
>>>>>>> On 1/25/26 8:51 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>>>>>> I used to believe that the big L Democrats, AKA "party of the elites"
>>>>>>>> were full of educated, well read, literate, urbane, compassionate
>>>>>>>> basket weavers – But when one does ad hominim postings like this,
>>>>>>>> devoid of example and cogent argument – kinda proves the point that
>>>>>>>> big L TDS folk are more hateful and ignorant than the illiterate,
>>>>>>>> unwashed, toothless, rednecked, guns and god, deplorables.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> QED
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But yet you remain in the shit filled room… odd.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dietrich
>>>>>>>> Rushing via AF
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2026 8:05 AM
>>>>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>>>>> Cc: Dietrich Rushing <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Greenland
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When your in a shit fill room, aren't the smartest people the ones who
>>>>>>>> leave first?
>>>>>>>> Hard to think anyone with a brain would ever support Trump or MAGA.
>>>>>>>> All the calls for "no talk of politics" is delusional when its this
>>>>>>>> impactful to everyones lives, typically spewed by "the right" cowards
>>>>>>>> and other deplorables who can't defend their positions.
>>>>>>>> On 1/24/26 11:32 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>>>>>>> If I did move the list to my own servers it would probably update
>>>>>>>>> faster…. But I am lazy…..
>>>>>>>>> Interesting, seems only liberals get pissed and leave. I wonder what
>>>>>>>>> a sociologist would have to say about that…
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2026 10:19 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Greenland
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah…. I love a good pot stir.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think you would fail the Turing test for the wrong reasons though…
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2026 10:05 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Greenland
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Especially with AIs like me stirring the pot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> bp
>>>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/24/2026 8:47 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> You got three choices”
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Take your own advice and “don’t post this political shit. “
>>>>>>>>>> Because it is all opinion. Full of falsehoods, rhetoric, hyperbole
>>>>>>>>>> and minor particles of truth totally surrounded by horseshit. Yours
>>>>>>>>>> more than most in my opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Or just sit back and enjoy the game.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Or you can leave. Like you say, it is a terrible platform… Why
>>>>>>>>>> would you want to even hang around here…
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2026 7:41 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Greenland
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I just went back and looked, and my first post here was in 2012. So
>>>>>>>>>> maybe not 20 years here, but 13.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I can remember some pretty garbage times on this list every time
>>>>>>>>>> politics get raised, even to the point of certain people leaving,
>>>>>>>>>> because this is a terrible platform to trump(et) your views. Been on
>>>>>>>>>> the internet for over 30 years and not once have I seen sane
>>>>>>>>>> political discourse on message boards or social media. It's even
>>>>>>>>>> worse with astroturfing in every direction, literal bots riling up
>>>>>>>>>> people in whatever direction Russia or India or China wants. You've
>>>>>>>>>> seen it, you've seen the bot problems on all social media, and yet
>>>>>>>>>> David talks about the USA standing up to Russia like they're doing
>>>>>>>>>> fucking anything about it. Other countries try to get rid of the
>>>>>>>>>> garbage social media companies from the USA and trumpster
>>>>>>>>>> unilaterally threatens tariffs and cries like a little baby.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The fact that the USA has gone so far down the path that you
>>>>>>>>>> literally have a man who apparently can do whatever they want with
>>>>>>>>>> no consequences is the broke brain part of my statements. A literal
>>>>>>>>>> rapist, thief. Cool. Nice job. You guys did it. Build the wall and
>>>>>>>>>> ya'll can sort each-other out.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pick and choose your platforms, figure out what is real and what
>>>>>>>>>> isn't. Go talk to people in the physical world. You'll get to
>>>>>>>>>> understand your fellow man a lot quicker and if your aim is to make
>>>>>>>>>> change.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 23, 2026 at 5:51 PM Chuck <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> OT in the subject line frequently means political shit. Many have
>>>>>>>>>>> been hanging here 20 years. We can bitch without having social
>>>>>>>>>>> media algorithms listening. There is an animal farm FB group but
>>>>>>>>>>> it is unused. I think..
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 23, 2026, at 5:56 PM, Ryan Ray <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> David, you are honestly clueless, there is nothing that can be
>>>>>>>>>>>> said to you to get you to see the light. This is extremely typical
>>>>>>>>>>>> with your ilk. You can see it in your responses of things like
>>>>>>>>>>>> "libs" or "the left"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a good day, stop posting political shit here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 23, 2026 at 4:49 PM David Hannum via AF
>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> See the response when you give a response that has thought behind
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it! Libs just resort to personal insults. It's all they have.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No rebuttals, just personal attacks. Sad . . .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 23, 2026, 7:44 PM Ryan Ray <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <image.png>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 23, 2026 at 12:25 PM David Hannum via AF
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I disagree. I don't think our allies distrust us. They don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LIKE lots of what Trump does, I think they see strength. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think they see "America First" and they respect that because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they understand that as the USA goes, they go. They need a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stron, unapologetic US who will stick their finger in the face
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Russia and China. They need us to be like that because they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't/won't be like that for themselves. The European nations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are all followers - not leaders. Biden & Obama did not lead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama was apologetic of the success of the US. My biggest fear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is what comes AFTER Trump? Every country in the world can't be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equal. Nothing gets done. And China and Russia aren't going
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to play that game.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 23, 2026 at 3:13 PM Bill Prince
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's still totally unnecessary, and does nothing but create
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confusion and distrust. If you want our allies to distrust us,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then do shit like this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> May actually be too late. They already distrust us, and China
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Russia are loving it. Just look at what Carney said.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stick an arrow pointing out of his ass, and that's probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where we should be going.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/22/2026 9:07 AM, David Hannum via AF wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it is what existed before, the world is on notice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we are planning to deploy defense systems there. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yea, it's still a win and Trump can take a victory lap (like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he needs a reason . . . )
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 22, 2026 at 11:47 AM Bill Prince
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even though it was Wednesday, I will call it a TACO day
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (follow the stock market).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are zero details of what the "deal" is or isn't, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm betting it's essentially what existed before.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prove me wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/22/2026 7:43 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looks like Trump got the deal he wanted. Everyone is happy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 22, 2026 at 7:11 AM MVTVWISPA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I too read that exact information from Facebook posts word
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for word.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hannum via AF
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2026 3:33 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: David Hannum <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT - Greenland
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So many think Trump is a bully on Greenland . . . If you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think he's so terrible, you absolutely don’t know history.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) 1867 – Andrew Johnson: explored buying Greenland &
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Iceland (right after Alaska).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) WWII – FDR: U.S. took over Greenland’s defense while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Denmark was occupied.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) 1946 – Truman: offered $100M in gold to buy it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) Cold War – Eisenhower → Kennedy: nonstop negotiations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for bases, radar, missiles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) Post–Cold War – Clinton/Bush/Obama: expanded Arctic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> security & missile defense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) 2019 – Trump: said publicly what presidents discussed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> privately for 150+ years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The U.S. didn’t “suddenly” want Greenland.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It’s been defending it, negotiating it, and embedding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there since the 1800s.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greenland = Arctic power, shipping lanes, missiles,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minerals.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump didn’t invent it. His crime is he said the quiet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part out loud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> =======================
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte said on Jan. 21 at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, that Trump is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spot on about the importance of Greenland to security. He
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, "When it comes to the Arctic, I think President
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump is right. Other leaders in NATO are right. We need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to defend the Arctic. There are eight countries bordering
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the Arctic. Seven are members of NATO. That’s Finland,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Canada, and the U.S.,”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rutte said.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And there’s only one country bordering on the Arctic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside NATO, and that’s Russia. And I would argue there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a ninth country, which is China, which is increasingly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> active in the Arctic region. So, President Trump and other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leaders are right, we have to do more there; we have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> protect the Arctic."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Hannum
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Dietrich Rushing
>>>>>>>> Founder & Technical Lead
>>>>>>>> Phone: 580-297-9166
>>>>>>>> Six Paths Solutions
>>>>>>>> Oklahoma | WISP | Infrastructure | MSP, Phone, and AI Solutions
>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>> www.sixpathssolutions.com --
>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com --
>>>>> AF mailing list
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>>>> AF mailing list
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