What I get out of this discussion is that the guy who thinks it is no trouble or that expensive is not the guy writing the check. No offense, but I often have a much different view of a reasonable cost for something than my people do. Sometimes I think it is worth a lot more, sometimes a lot less. I am sure your system is nice and it sounds like it works great. As long as it works for you.
On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: > I might not need all 14. I may only need ten, but I'm prepared for 14. > > For me it isn't about scale, it's about performance and resiliency. Well, > not that performance is much of an issue. > > I don't really have any e-mail headaches, so I guess I'll take that. > > All that's really different between four servers and 14 servers is the > number of boxes to log into to run apt-get update && apt-get upgrade -y. > Well, and every so often I have an extra "wget {URL to new mailserver > version" and "./install.sh" hitting enter a few times. > > > I also don't expect many WISPs to have geographic and network redundancy > for their backend. Once complete, everything critical to operations will be > geo and network redundant. I just got the MariaDB multi-master cluster > online and will be migrating my RADIUS, authoritative DNS, etc. to run off > that cluster instead of the local boxes they are now. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Josh Baird" <[email protected]> > *To: *[email protected] > *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:25:11 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube > > But, do you anticipate having to scale at that rate in the next few > years? At one job, we host over 14k Exchange 2010 mailboxes on (4) servers > (and two of those are idle doing nothing unless the primary boxes or > datacenter goes boom). At the WISP, we do ~1000 mailboxes (not Exchange) > on two boxes. Yeah, it's a single point of failure, but it's also in a > multi-host VMWare cluster. > > In my opinion, it's a waste of resources (and headaches) to have 14 > servers for a few hundred mailboxes. I would be willing to bet your > headaches will get worse if you scale to 1000+ users, maybe not because of > your infrastructure, but because of the users themselves. > > But, hey.. it's your headache, not mine! > > Josh > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Primary LDAP, backup LDAP, primary MX, backup MX, two mailstores (before >> I knew they wouldn't provide redundancy to each other, to be solved in >> about a year with a new version) and a proxy to handle that there's more >> than one mailstore. >> >> That's why I said with the given infrastructure I could handle 10x - 50x >> the mailboxes with no appreciable difference in cost other than disk space. >> > ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> > >> >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> http://www.midwest-ix.com >> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *"Josh Baird" <[email protected]> >> *To: *[email protected] >> *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:59:10 AM >> >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube >> >> Seven servers (yes, I know they are VMs), as awesome as Zimbra may be, is >> a little ridiculous for a few hundred users. >> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: >> > I have a few hundred mailboxes. >>> >>> I don't really have much for user support issues. I've had to revoke >>> accounts a couple times from users that kept handing out their password >>> like it was candy at a parade. No real forgotten password problems. Setup >>> just works. Hack attempts are shut down before they even try valid >>> credentials. >>> >>> I'm running a seven server Zimbra cluster. Whenever I can get a little >>> bit of time, it'll be geo and network diverse (separate cluster for all but >>> mailboxes elsewhere with the mailboxes coming in about a year). It will be >>> up to about 14 servers by then. >>> >> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> >> >>> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>> http://www.midwest-ix.com >>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" <[email protected]> >>> *To: *[email protected] >>> >> *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:29:00 AM >>> >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube >>> >>> How many thousands of users do you have? Running the service is pretty >>> cheap. I built my own sendmail+Dovecot system which was really cheap. Then >>> I got to a place where I didn't want my time tied up with that so we went >>> to Magicmail which was still pretty cheap. Through all of it it was the >>> support that was the big dollar sign. If you set expectations differently >>> maybe yours would be cheaper. All I know is I spent a lot of user tech >>> support time on it. More than anything else by far. Kind of a hidden >>> expense but definitely still there. We had, I think, 8000 users on the >>> system when we sold. Maybe a couple hundred domains. >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:11 AM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> What are people doing that's so expensive? I could have 10x - 50x the >>>> number of mailboxes as I have and it wouldn't cost me any more than it does >>>> now, other than some disks.... which aren't expensive. >>>> >>>> I guess I would probably move from the community version to the service >>>> provider version, but at that point that's under $0.20/mailbox/month. Not >>>> really a major expense. >>>> >>> ----- >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>> http://www.ics-il.com >>>> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com >>>> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" <[email protected]> >>>> *To: *[email protected] >>>> >>> *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:08:29 AM >>>> >>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube >>>> >>>> For me it wasn't about difficulty it was about expense. Email, at least >>>> how we did it, was a cost center not a profit center. I kept it until I >>>> sold and wish I would have ditched it much sooner. It was by far the >>>> biggest tech support PITA. >>>> >>>> I did learn afterward that the longer someone has an email address the >>>> more they are willing to pay to keep it. I have been raising he fee we >>>> charge to use those old emails. I am now at $250 a year for a single email >>>> and I have people begging me not to cut it off. I am still going to, but I >>>> think it is interesting since I used to give it away. >>>> >>>> I guess what I am saying is that if you do not charge a decent amount >>>> for it, why do it? The there is the whole minimum volume to be profitable >>>> thing that comes into play. I just would not keep doing something that >>>> doesn't make money. If it does, more power to you. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 7:18 AM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>> There seems to be two camps. One where people are running away form >>>>> their own e-mail servers and then those that embrace it. I haven't found >>>>> e-mail to be that difficult to manage. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>>> http://www.ics-il.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>> *From: *"Chuck Hogg" <[email protected]> >>>>> *To: *[email protected] >>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, November 5, 2015 6:01:35 AM >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Roundcube >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I hope you are charging handsomely for email. We just quit it for our >>>>> customer base...and only had 2-3 complaints. Everyone already has an >>>>> email >>>>> address. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Chuck >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:22 AM, Eric Kuhnke <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Any tips of tricks for success with using Roundcube to provide >>>>>> webmail to individual end users (not a single domain corporate >>>>>> environment)? >>>>>> >>>>>> Server side is postfix + spamassassin + dovecot. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have a successful 'test' setup of roundcube running in a VM doing >>>>>> TLSv1.2 on smtp and imap, logged into several user accounts on test >>>>>> domains >>>>>> on the dovecot server. >>>>>> >>>>>> Wondering if anyone has run into hiccups or weird things when using >>>>>> roundcube in a production environment. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>
