Their supermarkets are very well stocked... From: Mathew Howard Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 11:30 AM To: af Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to buy and why
So you're saying that you really don't think North Korea is the ideal society?! :P On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 12:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <[email protected]> wrote: the paying the government to protect us is tongue in cheek, see the attached image of greatness being supreme leader of nation peace through obedience, disarmament making for no death shoot, imperial scum see dominance in masterful power and soon dominate simple worlds On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 12:19 PM, Sam Morris <[email protected]> wrote: Couple of things here Patrick...and I mean these comments respectfully. The SCOTUS disagrees with your interpretation of the Second Amendment, as do roughly 120 million gun owners in America. The opinions of liberal scholars means exactly squat. Also, the first ten amendments (the Bill of Rights) can *not* be altered without abolishing the entire US Constitution. Getting back to the OP's question - I've carried everything from a .45 Glock 19 Gen 4 to my Israeli-made .50 cal Desert Eagle. I'm a big dude so I can get away with the larger guns and concealment. I stopped carrying the DE only because I didn't want to shoot the bad guy and kill three good guys standing behind him. And I will say this to which whomever it was who said we pay the government to protect us: At the same event where you and I met (in St Louis) Patrick, I was walking back to my hotel (two blocks from the event) after a long night of training and networking. It was about 1:00 am. As I was walking back, two of St. Louis' finest citizens (dirtbags) approached me, making it very clear that they weren't selling girl scout cookies. When they were about 50 yards away I took out my Glock and racked a round (I won't carry hot because as someone else mentioned here it doesn't have a safety). When these two scumbags heard that cartridge rack, they turned and bolted. I saw nothing but assholes and elbows. I didn't have to point my weapon at them or even show it to them, much less fire it. However, had I not had it with me, I have every reason to believe I'd likely not be here typing this to you. Sam On 12/7/2015 11:41 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: Yawn. The general population never made that boast until the NRA in the 1980s changed their tactics to spur slagging gun sales. They moved the conversation to patriotic themes, talk of freedom, and other pabulum gobbled up by folks. Contrary to popular “conservative” thinking, this is not settled law. In fact, even Scalia has been clear it’s quite open. Part of the issue is the meaning of “arms” and “keep” and “bear,” as well as the limits therein. But, even more important is how modern gun advocates neglect the entire first part of that amendment and pretend it does not exist at all, when rather, it is, in fact, the entire modifying context of the latter part of the sentence. I quote; "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The NRA has done yeoman’s work pretending that part of the amendment does not exist. The “well regulated militia” is the subject, not guns. The rest of the sentence is the modifier. “People” in this case are represented by each state’s militia. There is a significant opinion among many scholars that individual citizens have no right at all to a gun. Secondly, no right is absolute. Government even grants itself the authority to regulate our inalienable rights (capital punishment, etc.). Amendments can also be altered, like the idiot 18^th , in the face of changing realities. The reality of then was a muzzle-loaded, single fire musket. And, even if anyone wants to play elementary games and claim literalism, good luck with that, as that same text says nothing about ammunition, keeping and bearing LOADED arms. Patrick *From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Broadwick - Lists *Sent:* Monday, December 7, 2015 12:10 PM *To:* [email protected] *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to buy and why Since when is a discussion of our legal, Constitutional rights "pathetic" Patrick? We are talking about a tool, like any other, that can be used to protect ourselves and others. WISPs are often out in remote places in the dead of night...or at inner city data centers. They are vulnerable. I know that one person on this list would likely not be here right now if he hadn't been able to show a gun to someone that was about to bash him with a baseball bat outside a data center. Jeff Broadwick ConVergence Technologies, Inc. 312-205-2519 Office 574-220-7826 Cell [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> On Dec 7, 2015, at 11:58 AM, Patrick Leary <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I’ll just note this is a pathetic thread to have in any society that considers itself civil. Hell, even in the “wild west” the local law had people check their weapons into the sheriff when they came into town. In fact, formerly, states like Texas lead the country in banning open carry. “All the more surprising, then, that Texas was the first state to ban its citizens from carrying handguns, a restriction that remained on the books for 125 years.” http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/texas/article/First-to-ban-open-carry-Texas-could-be-one-of-5974401.php And just read this scholarly article from 1999: *Gun Control and the Old West* By Ross Collins History News Service <http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~hns/index.html>, Summer 1999. The smoke has cleared, and we peer down at the victim: another gun control bill, shot full ‘o holes. Just like in the old horse operas: a hero again shoots to protect a precious freedom, America’s right to bear arms. For many who keep a romantic image of America’s past, gun control is like that, a battle steeped in American tradition. It calls us back to those legendary days of the Old West, when cowboys defended their honor and their horses by way of their Colts . In fact, most historians see the cowboys of the Old West as THE defining heroes of 20th-century America. He’s used to sell everything from soap to hats. He’s apparently also an ideal American for anti-gun control groups: gun shows and gun advertising promote from a distinctive Old West flavor. Today’s anti gun control forces count their strongest support among society’s leaders from the states that once formed part of the Old West. The actual Old West pioneers of historical fact viewed matters differently, however. They would certainly hail the campaign to protect an American right to bear arms, but the record puts them behind "moderate, common-sense measures" for gun control—the very kind that President Clinton has proposed. Pioneer publications show Old West leaders repeatedly arguing in favor of gun control. City leaders in the old cattle towns knew from experience what some Americans today don't want to believe: a town which allows easy access to guns invites trouble. What these cow town leaders saw intimately in their day-to-day association with guns is that more guns in more places caused not greater safety, but greater death in an already dangerous wilderness. By the 1880s many in the west were fed up with gun violence. Gun control, they contended, was absolutely essential, and the remedy advocated usually was usually no less than a total ban on pistol-packing. The editor of the Black Hills Daily Times of Dakota Territory in 1884, called the idea of carrying firearms into the city a “dangerous practice,” not only to others, but to the packer himself. He emphasized his point with the headline, "Perforated by His Own Pistol." The editor of the Montana’s Yellowstone Journal acknowledged four years earlier that Americans have "the right to bear arms," but he contended that guns have to be regulated. As for cowboys carrying pistols, a dispatch from Laramie’s Northwest Stock Journal in 1884, reported, "We see many cowboys fitting up for the spring and summer work. They all seem to think it absolutely necessary to have a revolver. Of all foolish notions this is the most absurd." Cowboy president Theodore Roosevelt recalled with approval that as a Dakota Territory ranch owner, his town, at the least, allowed "no shooting in the streets." The editor of that town's newspaper, The Bad Lands Cow Boy of Medora, demanded that gun control be even tighter than that, however. Like leaders in Miles City and many other cow towns, he wanted to see guns banned entirely within the city limits. A.T. Packard in August 1885 called "packing a gun" a "senseless custom," and noted about a month later that "As a protection, it is terribly useless.” Old West cattlemen themselves also saw the need for gun control. By 1882, a Texas cattle raising association had banned six-shooters from the cowboy's belt. "In almost every section of the West murders are on the increase, and cowmen are too often the principals in the encounters," concurred a dispatch from the Texas Live Stock Journal dated June 5, 1884. "The six-shooter loaded with deadly cartridges is a dangerous companion for any man, especially if he should unfortunately be primed with whiskey. Cattlemen should unite in aiding the enforcement of the law against carrying of deadly weapons." This echoes President Clinton’s reaction following the failure in Congress of the most recent gun control proposals: “The American people will not stand for this.” So far they have, however, as recalled by the record of defeated attempts to legislate control. As U.S. Rep. Martin Sabo (D.-Minn.) noted, “there’s broad public support for it, but he opponents are much more intense about it.” The Old West’s leaders who argued for gun control knew that a long time ago. Their arguments sound as contemporary at the end of this century as they were earnest at the end of the last. But despite them, few packers have been persuaded to put away their pistols, then or now. Copyright 2004 by Ross F. Collins <www.ndsu.edu/communication/collins <http://www.ndsu.edu/communication/collins>> Wayne LaPierre sure has done his job well. He’s made most of you fooled into thinking owning a gun is a patriotic act without you realizing you are just another tool for raking in the dough. He’s been so successful he’s converted gun ownership into a religious issue, to point that whether or not you own a gun is highly predictive of your being an evangelical Christian. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/is-gun-ownership-christian/2013/01/25/c7afe7fe-6724-11e2-93e1-475791032daf_story.html Patrick *From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum *Sent:* Monday, December 7, 2015 11:38 AM *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to buy and why I carry a Colt 45 Defender. It is relatively small for a 45. An NSA buddy of mine, who had been in several close range shootouts in his career asked me one time why I carry a 45. I told him that I'd never been in a firefight. I don't train in high pressure situations, and while I'm proficient at the range, I don't train for situations like he did or the cops do. If I am in a situation where I have to pull a gun, my adrenaline is going to be pumping like crazy, and I may be moving to cover or trying to stay out of the way of bullets myself. I may only hit what I'm shooting at once if I'm lucky. I want the once to count. On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:30 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: define legally If a bear shits in the woods, will tight shoes cause callouses? I dont know why any of you want these killing machines, the government has guns, and we pay them to protect us. Your gun, if you hand it to a bad guy, is 100% of the time going to be in the bad guys possession, and if that bad guy happens to be 5, youve just given a child a handgun, are you saying we should arm children? Why are you trying to kill children, children are the future, teach them well and let them lead the way. Imperialist scum be furthering decline humanity. Mighty leader will devour you in fear. <image002.jpg> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Chuck McCown <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Can you legally own hand grenades? *From:*Mathew Howard <mailto:[email protected]> *Sent:*Monday, December 07, 2015 9:15 AM *To:*af <mailto:[email protected]> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to buy and why you do if you want to conceal it... :P On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Chuck McCown <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: You don’t need a CC to carry a Springfield 30-06.... *From:*Paul McCall <mailto:[email protected]> *Sent:*Monday, December 07, 2015 9:03 AM *To:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> *Subject:*[AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to buy and why I am getting my CC permit (Florida) in a week or so. I took an absolutely excellent class from the main trainer at the Brevard county sheriff’s office. Now, I am looking for an excellent CC gun to use, as my long barrel Colt 38 is not a good fit for that. I am certain that this group probably has a LOT of expertise (and many opinions) on THE gun to use. J Paul McCall, Pres. PDMNet / Florida Broadband 658 Old Dixie Highway Vero Beach, FL 32962 772-564-6800 <tel:772-564-6800> office 772-473-0352 <tel:772-473-0352> cell www.pdmnet.com <http://www.pdmnet.com/> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ = ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
