It's all fake!!!
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: > Their supermarkets are very well stocked... > > *From:* Mathew Howard <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Monday, December 07, 2015 11:30 AM > *To:* af <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to buy > and why > > So you're saying that you really don't think North Korea is the ideal > society?! :P > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 12:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> the paying the government to protect us is tongue in cheek, see the >> attached image of greatness being supreme leader of nation peace through >> obedience, disarmament making for no death shoot, imperial scum see >> dominance in masterful power and soon dominate simple worlds >> >> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 12:19 PM, Sam Morris <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Couple of things here Patrick...and I mean these comments respectfully. >>> >>> The SCOTUS disagrees with your interpretation of the Second Amendment, >>> as do roughly 120 million gun owners in America. The opinions of liberal >>> scholars means exactly squat. >>> >>> Also, the first ten amendments (the Bill of Rights) can *not* be altered >>> without abolishing the entire US Constitution. >>> >>> Getting back to the OP's question - I've carried everything from a .45 >>> Glock 19 Gen 4 to my Israeli-made .50 cal Desert Eagle. I'm a big dude so I >>> can get away with the larger guns and concealment. I stopped carrying the >>> DE only because I didn't want to shoot the bad guy and kill three good guys >>> standing behind him. >>> >>> And I will say this to which whomever it was who said we pay the >>> government to protect us: At the same event where you and I met (in St >>> Louis) Patrick, I was walking back to my hotel (two blocks from the event) >>> after a long night of training and networking. It was about 1:00 am. As I >>> was walking back, two of St. Louis' finest citizens (dirtbags) approached >>> me, making it very clear that they weren't selling girl scout cookies. When >>> they were about 50 yards away I took out my Glock and racked a round (I >>> won't carry hot because as someone else mentioned here it doesn't have a >>> safety). When these two scumbags heard that cartridge rack, they turned and >>> bolted. I saw nothing but assholes and elbows. >>> >>> I didn't have to point my weapon at them or even show it to them, much >>> less fire it. However, had I not had it with me, I have every reason to >>> believe I'd likely not be here typing this to you. >>> >>> Sam >>> >>> >>> On 12/7/2015 11:41 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: >>> >>>> Yawn. The general population never made that boast until the NRA in the >>>> 1980s changed their tactics to spur slagging gun sales. They moved the >>>> conversation to patriotic themes, talk of freedom, and other pabulum >>>> gobbled up by folks. Contrary to popular “conservative” thinking, this >>>> is not settled law. In fact, even Scalia has been clear it’s quite open. >>>> Part of the issue is the meaning of “arms” and “keep” and “bear,” as >>>> well as the limits therein. But, even more important is how modern gun >>>> advocates neglect the entire first part of that amendment and pretend it >>>> does not exist at all, when rather, it is, in fact, the entire modifying >>>> context of the latter part of the sentence. >>>> >>>> I quote; >>>> >>>> "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free >>>> State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be >>>> infringed." >>>> >>>> The NRA has done yeoman’s work pretending that part of the amendment >>>> does not exist. The “well regulated militia” is the subject, not guns. >>>> The rest of the sentence is the modifier. “People” in this case are >>>> represented by each state’s militia. >>>> >>>> There is a significant opinion among many scholars that individual >>>> citizens have no right at all to a gun. >>>> >>>> Secondly, no right is absolute. Government even grants itself the >>>> authority to regulate our inalienable rights (capital punishment, etc.). >>>> Amendments can also be altered, like the idiot 18^th , in the face of >>>> changing realities. The reality of then was a muzzle-loaded, single fire >>>> musket. >>>> >>>> And, even if anyone wants to play elementary games and claim literalism, >>>> good luck with that, as that same text says nothing about ammunition, >>>> keeping and bearing LOADED arms. >>>> >>>> Patrick >>>> >>>> *From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Broadwick - >>>> Lists >>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 7, 2015 12:10 PM >>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to buy >>>> and why >>>> >>>> Since when is a discussion of our legal, Constitutional rights >>>> "pathetic" Patrick? We are talking about a tool, like any other, that >>>> can be used to protect ourselves and others. WISPs are often out in >>>> remote places in the dead of night...or at inner city data centers. >>>> They are vulnerable. I know that one person on this list would likely >>>> not be here right now if he hadn't been able to show a gun to someone >>>> that was about to bash him with a baseball bat outside a data center. >>>> >>>> Jeff Broadwick >>>> >>>> ConVergence Technologies, Inc. >>>> >>>> 312-205-2519 Office >>>> >>>> 574-220-7826 Cell >>>> >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 7, 2015, at 11:58 AM, Patrick Leary <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I’ll just note this is a pathetic thread to have in any society that >>>> considers itself civil. Hell, even in the “wild west” the local law >>>> had people check their weapons into the sheriff when they came into >>>> town. In fact, formerly, states like Texas lead the country in >>>> banning open carry. >>>> >>>> “All the more surprising, then, that Texas was the first state to >>>> ban its citizens from carrying handguns, a restriction that remained >>>> on the books for 125 years.” >>>> >>>> http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/texas/article/First-to-ban-open-carry-Texas-could-be-one-of-5974401.php >>>> >>>> And just read this scholarly article from 1999: >>>> >>>> *Gun Control and the Old West* >>>> By Ross Collins >>>> History News Service <http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~hns/index.html>, >>>> >>>> Summer 1999. >>>> >>>> The smoke has cleared, and we peer down at the victim: another gun >>>> control bill, shot full ‘o holes. Just like in the old horse operas: >>>> a hero again shoots to protect a precious freedom, America’s right >>>> to bear arms. For many who keep a romantic image of America’s past, >>>> gun control is like that, a battle steeped in American tradition. It >>>> calls us back to those legendary days of the Old West, when cowboys >>>> defended their honor and their horses by way of their Colts >>>> . >>>> In fact, most historians see the cowboys of the Old West as THE >>>> defining heroes of 20th-century America. He’s used to sell >>>> everything from soap to hats. He’s apparently also an ideal American >>>> for anti-gun control groups: gun shows and gun advertising promote >>>> from a distinctive Old West flavor. >>>> >>>> Today’s anti gun control forces count their strongest support among >>>> society’s leaders from the states that once formed part of the Old >>>> West. >>>> The actual Old West pioneers of historical fact viewed matters >>>> differently, however. They would certainly hail the campaign to >>>> protect an American right to bear arms, but the record puts them >>>> behind "moderate, common-sense measures" for gun control—the very >>>> kind that President Clinton has proposed. >>>> >>>> Pioneer publications show Old West leaders repeatedly arguing in >>>> favor of gun control. City leaders in the old cattle towns knew from >>>> experience what some Americans today don't want to believe: a town >>>> which allows easy access to guns invites trouble. >>>> What these cow town leaders saw intimately in their day-to-day >>>> association with guns is that more guns in more places caused not >>>> greater safety, but greater death in an already dangerous >>>> wilderness. By the 1880s many in the west were fed up with gun >>>> violence. Gun control, they contended, was absolutely essential, and >>>> the remedy advocated usually was usually no less than a total ban on >>>> pistol-packing. >>>> The editor of the Black Hills Daily Times of Dakota Territory in >>>> 1884, called the idea of carrying firearms into the city a >>>> “dangerous practice,” not only to others, but to the packer himself. >>>> He emphasized his point with the headline, "Perforated by His Own >>>> Pistol." >>>> The editor of the Montana’s Yellowstone Journal acknowledged four >>>> years earlier that Americans have "the right to bear arms," but he >>>> contended that guns have to be regulated. As for cowboys carrying >>>> pistols, a dispatch from Laramie’s Northwest Stock Journal in 1884, >>>> reported, "We see many cowboys fitting up for the spring and summer >>>> work. They all seem to think it absolutely necessary to have a >>>> revolver. Of all foolish notions this is the most absurd." >>>> >>>> Cowboy president Theodore Roosevelt recalled with approval that as a >>>> Dakota Territory ranch owner, his town, at the least, allowed "no >>>> shooting in the streets." The editor of that town's newspaper, The >>>> Bad Lands Cow Boy of Medora, demanded that gun control be even >>>> tighter than that, however. Like leaders in Miles City and many >>>> other cow towns, he wanted to see guns banned entirely within the >>>> city limits. A.T. Packard in August 1885 called "packing a gun" a >>>> "senseless custom," and noted about a month later that "As a >>>> protection, it is terribly useless.” >>>> >>>> Old West cattlemen themselves also saw the need for gun control. By >>>> 1882, a Texas cattle raising association had banned six-shooters >>>> from the cowboy's belt. "In almost every section of the West murders >>>> are on the increase, and cowmen are too often the principals in the >>>> encounters," concurred a dispatch from the Texas Live Stock Journal >>>> dated June 5, 1884. "The six-shooter loaded with deadly cartridges >>>> is a dangerous companion for any man, especially if he should >>>> unfortunately be primed with whiskey. Cattlemen should unite in >>>> aiding the enforcement of the law against carrying of deadly >>>> weapons." >>>> >>>> This echoes President Clinton’s reaction following the failure in >>>> Congress of the most recent gun control proposals: “The American >>>> people will not stand for this.” So far they have, however, as >>>> recalled by the record of defeated attempts to legislate control. As >>>> U.S. Rep. Martin Sabo (D.-Minn.) noted, “there’s broad public >>>> support for it, but he opponents are much more intense about it.” >>>> >>>> The Old West’s leaders who argued for gun control knew that a long >>>> time ago. Their arguments sound as contemporary at the end of this >>>> century as they were earnest at the end of the last. But despite >>>> them, few packers have been persuaded to put away their pistols, >>>> then or now. >>>> >>>> Copyright 2004 by Ross F. Collins >>>> <www.ndsu.edu/communication/collins >>>> <http://www.ndsu.edu/communication/collins>> >>>> >>>> Wayne LaPierre sure has done his job well. He’s made most of you >>>> fooled into thinking owning a gun is a patriotic act without you >>>> realizing you are just another tool for raking in the dough. He’s >>>> been so successful he’s converted gun ownership into a religious >>>> issue, to point that whether or not you own a gun is highly >>>> predictive of your being an evangelical Christian. >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/is-gun-ownership-christian/2013/01/25/c7afe7fe-6724-11e2-93e1-475791032daf_story.html >>>> >>>> Patrick >>>> >>>> *From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum >>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 7, 2015 11:38 AM >>>> *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to >>>> buy and why >>>> >>>> I carry a Colt 45 Defender. It is relatively small for a 45. An NSA >>>> buddy of mine, who had been in several close range shootouts in his >>>> career asked me one time why I carry a 45. I told him that I'd never >>>> been in a firefight. I don't train in high pressure situations, and >>>> while I'm proficient at the range, I don't train for situations like >>>> he did or the cops do. If I am in a situation where I have to pull a >>>> gun, my adrenaline is going to be pumping like crazy, and I may be >>>> moving to cover or trying to stay out of the way of bullets myself. >>>> I may only hit what I'm shooting at once if I'm lucky. I want the >>>> once to count. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:30 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> define legally >>>> >>>> If a bear shits in the woods, will tight shoes cause callouses? >>>> >>>> I dont know why any of you want these killing machines, the >>>> government has guns, and we pay them to protect us. Your gun, if >>>> you hand it to a bad guy, is 100% of the time going to be in the >>>> bad guys possession, and if that bad guy happens to be 5, youve >>>> just given a child a handgun, are you saying we should arm >>>> children? Why are you trying to kill children, children are the >>>> future, teach them well and let them lead the way. >>>> >>>> Imperialist scum be furthering decline humanity. Mighty leader >>>> will devour you in fear. >>>> >>>> <image002.jpg> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Chuck McCown <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Can you legally own hand grenades? >>>> >>>> *From:*Mathew Howard <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>>> *Sent:*Monday, December 07, 2015 9:15 AM >>>> >>>> *To:*af <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - >>>> which to buy and why >>>> >>>> you do if you want to conceal it... :P >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Chuck McCown >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> You don’t need a CC to carry a Springfield 30-06.... >>>> >>>> *From:*Paul McCall <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>>> *Sent:*Monday, December 07, 2015 9:03 AM >>>> >>>> *To:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>>> *Subject:*[AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - >>>> which to buy and why >>>> >>>> I am getting my CC permit (Florida) in a week or so. I >>>> took an absolutely excellent class from the main trainer >>>> at the Brevard county sheriff’s office. >>>> >>>> Now, I am looking for an excellent CC gun to use, as my >>>> long barrel Colt 38 is not a good fit for that. >>>> >>>> I am certain that this group probably has a LOT of >>>> expertise (and many opinions) on THE gun to use. >>>> >>>> J >>>> >>>> Paul McCall, Pres. >>>> >>>> PDMNet / Florida Broadband >>>> >>>> 658 Old Dixie Highway >>>> >>>> Vero Beach, FL 32962 >>>> >>>> 772-564-6800 <tel:772-564-6800> office >>>> >>>> 772-473-0352 <tel:772-473-0352> cell >>>> >>>> www.pdmnet.com <http://www.pdmnet.com/> >>>> >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see >>>> your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of >>>> the team. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>>> computer viruses. >>>> >>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>>> computer viruses. >>>> >>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>>> computer viruses. >>>> >>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>> >>>> = >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>>> computer viruses. >>>> >>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team >> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. >> > >
