If they do not include tort reform in the equation, it is never going to change.
From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 3:39 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics I don’t know specifically about the UK, but most of Europe has a high VAT which is a very regressive tax. But that is offset by many government funded social services, free college tuition, stuff like that. Politicians here in the US tend to ignore that you can’t have one without the other. Kind of like requiring insurance companies to insure everyone even those with pre-existing conditions, goes along with the individual mandate so healthy young people can’t opt out (and then sign up when they get sick). Politicians will propose getting rid of one but keeping the other, which will not fly. The politicians probably know better, but they are pandering. Well, some are pandering, some may actually think you can eat the cow and still get milk. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 4:27 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics Hi, Just curious, do you know what her tax rates are like? It seems like the money has to come from somewhere for National Health Care, so I'm curious if it's part of their income tax structure, or somewhere else? Travis On 10/10/2016 3:15 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: Some things should not see competition. Municipal water and sewer systems for example. Streets, roads and highways. One can make a pretty good argument for the power company. Gas company. Less so for Telco and CATV. So what is healthcare? Similar to national defense? We already have 5-6 branches of the armed forces duplicating services there. Similar to public education? We have competition there too. (Are the Merchant Marine their own branch?) I have a daughter that lives in England. She loves the National Health System. And they have private doctors if they want them too. Somebody will win a nobel prize in economics if they can model this and produce the correct answer. From: Lewis Bergman Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 2:47 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics I struggle to recall much of anything that thrives, innovates, and is efficient without competition. On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 3:44 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote: I still think that it would be better with a single payer system like what's in use in most other countries in the world. Problem is we would have to figure out how to do that without letting the government administer it. bp<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 10/10/2016 1:22 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: Amen. (I was actually hoping the ACA would bring insurance to low income folks. Didn’t happen. I personally know a handful that tried and could not get something they could afford. Even the low cost packages had deductable like $1500. Stay poor and stay on Medicaid was my advice to them...) From: Lewis Bergman Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 2:17 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics The trouble with facts is the government is in charge of keeping them so it is very difficult to get a real picture of what has or is going on. What is a surplus? well, most administrations that I remember state that they have a surplus when the money they spent was less than they were going to spend or the money they were going to spend was less than what they took in. None of how the government accounts for money would work for anyone who can't print their own. It doesn't matter who is in charge, it is extremely difficult to plow through all the BS they throw up to get to the real numbers. Doesn't matter if it is deportations and what counts as one, "saving money" and what counts as that, some word called winning which I'll be damned if I know what that means anymore. Trump uses that word a lot but I am not sure he can explain what he mans by it. I just had to turn the debate off. It is just so hard to imagine that we are in this mess. But democracy is messy. The good news is that the president can hardly ruin everything without a lot of cooperation. Even Obama could barely get healthcare passed with both houses. Both of these characters are so well hated by so many I can't imagine they will be able to do anything but appoint people and make executive orders. Of course, it is better for the economy when congress can't pass laws anyway. On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 2:54 PM Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: The jist of what I said earlier is that Trump is there to make others look good _BY Comparison_... When looked at on absolute scales other things may be observed... On 10/10/2016 12:50 PM, Bill Prince wrote: > The Clinton Foundation has actually done some good in the world; as > opposed to the other guy's. His "Foundation" has served no one other > than himself or his "companies". > > > bp > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > > On 10/10/2016 12:48 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: >> Yep and that was the start of the Clinton Foundation... >> >> On 10/10/2016 12:41 PM, Bill Prince wrote: >>> Don't forget it was a republican congress that wrote and passed the >>> legislation. >>> >>> I'm not taking him off the hook, just pointing out that it takes two to >>> tango. >>> >>> >>> bp >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> >>> On 10/10/2016 12:35 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: >>>> Once again, Chuck, you nailed it... BC was just lucky to be sitting >>>> on a mountain of money and it made him look like a god.. Then he >>>> signed the dumbest piece of legislature to come along in 50 years >>>> against advice on the last few days of his presidency.. Not inspiring >>>> in any way... But we are now wedged and your advice is correct. We >>>> will survive another 4 years and hope she doesn't pull a BC on her >>>> last days in office. >>>> >>>> On 10/10/2016 10:45 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>>>> Bill Clinton just happened to coincide with the tech boom and the >>>>> advent >>>>> of the commercial internet. That is what produced the surplus, he >>>>> just >>>>> lucked out. His decisions to deregulate mortgage banking is what >>>>> brought us all back down in 2008. >>>>> I have told former business partners (upon learning of their >>>>> infidelity) >>>>> if you will cheat on your spouse you sure as hell will cheat me. >>>>> In my mind the game is over. 4 years of watching something that could >>>>> have been so much better lies ahead. Been through it before, can >>>>> endure >>>>> it again. >>>>> Winston Churchill said Democracy is the WORST form of governments.... >>>>> except for all the others. >>>>> *From:* Jaime Solorza >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 11:37 AM >>>>> *To:* Animal Farm >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics >>>>> Now you sound like my Trump loving buddy....state facts.....not >>>>> shit you >>>>> hear from Hannity, OReilly, Limbaugh and bunch.. >>>>> Bill Clinton (An unfaithful husband....I don't mince words) >>>>> balanced the >>>>> budget and we had a surplus....a Democrat..but he didn't do it >>>>> BFM...(By >>>>> Fucking Magic for you hard of hearing)...it took both sides to get >>>>> those >>>>> things going....Knock Obama all you want, you do anyways, but he >>>>> inherited a shit storm and even with all the Republican resistance, >>>>> got >>>>> us out of the recession. Trump used the recession to make >>>>> money..(fact...like Potter in Capra's movie)...Trump keeps blaming >>>>> Obama >>>>> for ISIS!!! really.....lets revise history like our Texas Board of >>>>> Education does all the time.....Wrong is wrong, no matter who does >>>>> it....Clinton, Trump, Kennedy and other presidents cheated on their >>>>> wives...I bought out my first business partner for just >>>>> that...cheating >>>>> on his wife and children...Guess I am old school, but if a man >>>>> cheats on >>>>> those close to him, where the hell do I stand in that relationship? >>>>> Goes to character and morals.....yes we joke on this list allot >>>>> including sexual ones....but I have never read anything on this list >>>>> about thinking its okay to grope women because you are rich or a >>>>> celebrity...or worse call one of you daughters voluptuous ...NBC >>>>> suspended Billy Bush but only after extreme pressure from social >>>>> media....Chump says he uses it and in the end the media is what >>>>> will do >>>>> him in....Listen carefully..THIS IS NO FUCKING REALITY SHOW YOU MORON >>>>> TRUMP!!! I know those who approve of him will stay loyal up to the >>>>> election....Like I said before and I say it again...It reminds of >>>>> Hitlers followers....they knew it was wrong but didn't give a >>>>> shit....sorry muchachos, that Make America Great Again dream will not >>>>> ever be back again, keeping kicking the sleeping giant.....too many of >>>>> us are educated now and we can vote....as much as you want to change >>>>> voting laws to keep us out, it will not work......lets see how it >>>>> plays >>>>> out on November 8th.... >>>>> Jaime Solorza >>>>> Wireless Systems Architect >>>>> 915-861-1390 >>>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Wireless Administrator >>>>> <wirel...@htn.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> MUCH HAS CHANGED ABOUT POLITICS OVER THE YEARS.____ >>>>> >>>>> ____ >>>>> >>>>> ____ >>>>> >>>>> *“My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for >>>>> you, ask >>>>> what you can do for your country.”____* >>>>> >>>>> *____* >>>>> >>>>> ____ >>>>> >>>>> AND THOSE ARE THE WORDS OF A DOEMCRAT ! >>>>> >>>>> ____ >>>>> >>>>> ____ >>>>> >>>>> AND NOW WE HAVE A NATIONAL DEBT OF:____ >>>>> >>>>> ____ >>>>> >>>>> *$19,493,291,113,808____* >>>>> >>>>> *____* >>>>> >>>>> It’s hard for me to believe that ANY of the other issues matter. >>>>> I’m not afraid of a president that might hurt someone’s >>>>> feelings on >>>>> the way to fixing the mess we’re in. ____ >>>>> >>>>> ____ >>>>> >>>>> Steve B.____ >>>>> >>>>> ____ >>>>> >>>>> ____ >>>>> >>>>> ____ >>>>> >>> >
