>>>> but they count one channel and both polarities as one channel, doubling >>>> their performance and ignoring that they're using twice the spectrum.
Where are you getting that from Mike ? Taking a look at the last few pages of the AF11x Data Sheet, what you are stating above doesn't appear to be factual. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: [email protected] > From: "Mike Hammett" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 12:30:08 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? > It isn't, though. UBNT gets worse bits/hz than other vendors. I'm not sure how > they arranged that. They think they get better, but they count one channel and > both polarities as one channel, doubling their performance and ignoring that > they're using twice the spectrum. > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > Midwest Internet Exchange > The Brothers WISP > From: "Bill Prince" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 10:35:59 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? > Sure does depend on your precipitation zone. You can also engineer the link > for > whatever performance you need. None of our 11 GHz links experience rain fade, > but we don't have any longer than 10 miles. > As for performance, I guess the final arbiter would be the number of bits/Hz. > That is almost binary. So then you have to look at the bits/Hz/$? > bp > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > On 11/19/2016 8:27 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: >> I don’t expect rain fade at 11 GHz but I am in Utah. >> From: Ken Hohhof >> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 9:17 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? >> Some random thoughts on AF-11x: >> 1) Traditionally a licensed backhaul vendor has been expected to have a >> complete >> line which for FCC means 6, 11, 18, 23 GHz. When Ubiquiti or Mimosa chooses >> to >> cherry pick 11 GHz, it’s like a convenience store that doesn’t carry >> everything >> you need to stock your refrigerator, just milk and bread. You will need 2 >> vendors unless you never have short or long links, or areas where you can’t >> coordinate an 11 GHz link. >> 2) I assume these are OFDM like the other AFx radios? It’s not obvious what >> performance advantages OFDM brings to this application, and it does add >> overhead for things like cyclic prefix and pilot tones, as well as latency >> and >> peak/avg ratio issues. It may have implementation advantages, but >> traditionally >> licensed radios have valued performance over everything else. >> 3) I have several AF-5x links and I like them, the software is kind of >> barebones >> though. I’m always surprised when I look for something in the stats or logs >> and >> find it isn’t monitored. You’d think software would be a strength for them. >> Mimosa seems more creative, and even a 10 year old Orthogon radio has more >> monitoring and troubleshooting tools. I guess software is something that can >> improve over time, although the AFx firmware doesn’t seem to get many >> updates. >> 4) With licensed links we are more likely to be putting them on commercial >> towers where we may be collocated with the big guys. Commercial tower owners >> are starting to insist on attention to low PIM (passive intermod). N >> connectors >> and coax jumpers would seem to invite PIM problems more than a slip-fit >> waveguide connection to the antenna. >> 5) RF performance of most licensed radios is per specs. Where the problems >> occur >> is often features like ACM, data buffers, etc. If you are using 11 GHz, you >> are >> probably expecting rain fades. How well has the vendor implemented adaptive >> coding and modulation, is it truly hitless, does it use the max xmt power at >> each modulation, etc. >> 6) Always pay close attention to xmt power at each modulation. The headline >> specs fors some radio may say 4096QAM and 26 dBm xmt power, but as you look >> at >> the detailed specs, the xmt power at 4096QAM may be 21 dBm, and you may not >> get >> that 26 dBm at anything over 64QAM. I would imagine this is especially >> important with an OFDM radio, since high modulation OFDM tends to have a high >> peak/avg ratio, requiring more headroom in the power amp. >> 7) The choice of coax connectors means you can easily extend the distance >> from >> radio to antenna, but you probably won’t due to coax loss. Most licensed >> radios >> have all sorts of adapter options for remote mounts and waveguide, which is >> more expensive than coax but higher performance. >> From: Af [ mailto:[email protected] ] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds >> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 9:10 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? >> If they were really that out of touch given the context of the world market, >> they wouldn't have product lines doubling in net revenue quarter over >> quarter. >> On Nov 19, 2016 7:27 AM, "Mike Hammett" < [email protected] > wrote: >> Yeah, but they have a fundamental problem. Company-wide they are out of touch >> with their customers and what they need as well as what the rest of the >> market >> offers. >> Examples: >> Still no SFPs on radios. >> AF11 has a channel width from the 2000s. >> AF11 isn't nearly as spectrally efficient as they think it is. >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> The Brothers WISP >> From: "Josh Reynolds" < [email protected] > >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 10:14:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? >> I know of a company that already has 8 links deployed that they replaced >> existing radios with. >> They built their own radio core. (Second time for UBNT, if you count Invictus >> core and then this one... Not counting the ones they made before UBNT.) >> You underestimate them a lot. They're making more money across the board and >> investing even more money in R&D and labor than they ever have. The past few >> years they've made major internal changes, and things are just now starting >> to >> bare fruit from those decisions. >> They also have a huge cash reserve, and it wouldn't surprise me at all for >> them >> to start making acquisitions if they choose to. >> On Nov 18, 2016 9:50 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" < [email protected] >> > >> wrote: >>> this isnt my usual asshole distrust of UBNT, I know UBNT chuck is behind >>> it, so >>> its solid gear, but are people really ready to put their faith in the >>> limited >>> and $ spectrum on UBNT? >>> On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 6:18 PM, Josh Reynolds < [email protected] > >>> wrote: >>>> They are designing for a lot of different mounting options, but they have >>>> to hit >>>> the ones that are the easiest sells out the gate. >>>> Stay tuned. >>>> On Nov 18, 2016 5:44 PM, "George Skorup" < [email protected] > wrote: >>>>> We have RadioWaves HP2 and HP3s' in a couple flavors. HPx-11R, Remec >>>>> round for >>>>> Trango ApexPlus and HPx-11EX, for Exalt G2. Then we have Trango >>>>> AD11G2-S2's and >>>>> 3-S2's for ApexPlus, Remec round. So obviously we wouldn't be able to do >>>>> the >>>>> feedhorn swap on those. >>>>> The RadioWaves 11EX are single-pol only, so those would need the feedhorn >>>>> swapped. But the 11R is where it makes sense for the Remec adapter plate, >>>>> especially in the case of the Trango dishes. >>>>> So for me it would come down to $250-300? for the adapter plate vs $400? >>>>> for a >>>>> new RW feedhorn vs $1k for a whole new dish. >>>>> This would probably be half as difficult if UBNT would've designed for >>>>> waveguide, IMO. >>>>> On 11/18/2016 2:13 PM, Brad Belton wrote: >>>>>> Right, I see the RadioWaves DP N-Type feed, but we�re looking/hoping >>>>>> someone >>>>>> comes out with a REMEC round to DP N-Type adapter.� >>>>>> � >>>>>> Quicker, cheaper than replacing the feed horn and could be used on any >>>>>> antenna >>>>>> with a REMEC round feed horn�not just a RadioWaves antenna. >>>>>> � >>>>>> Brad >>>>>> � >>>>>> From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] ] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Mike Hammett >>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 2:08 PM >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? >>>>>> � >>>>>> Non-UBNT licensed dish to N connectors and radio mount. >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>>>>> The Brothers WISP >>>>>> From: "Brad Belton" < [email protected] > >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 2:06:47 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? >>>>>> So, what are we looking for?� SFP port? >>>>>> � >>>>>> I don�t see any REMEC round to dual polarity N-Type adapters in your >>>>>> pictures!� <grin> >>>>>> � >>>>>> Brad >>>>>> � >>>>>> From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] ] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Mike Hammett >>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 2:02 PM >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? >>>>>> � >>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/photos/a.997555730369879.1073741834.186874744771319/997557797036339/?type=3&theater >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>>>>> The Brothers WISP >>>>>> From: "Brad Belton" < [email protected] > >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 10:09:25 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? >>>>>> You'll need to order a new feed horn for your RadioWaves antenna. �I >>>>>> don't >>>>>> have the SKUs yet, but I'm hearing they might be shipping by end of the >>>>>> month or early next. �They are basically a standard dual polarity >>>>>> N-Type >>>>>> feed horn except the feed horn "kit" also comes with a UBNT specific >>>>>> mounting bracket for the radio. >>>>>> I wish there was a REMEC round to dual polarity N-Type adapter available. >>>>>> Sure would be easier than a feed horn swap...and likely less expensive >>>>>> too. >>>>>> I've got a call into Pasternack to see if such an adapter is even >>>>>> feasible. >>>>>> I'm thinking it is, but would depend on demand. >>>>>> Brad >>>>>> � >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] ] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Keefe John >>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 9:59 AM >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? >>>>>> What was on the dish you had before? �Can I make these work on a a >>>>>> Radiowaves Dragonwave dish? >>>>>> On 11/17/2016 8:54 PM, Brad Belton wrote: >>>>>> > DoubleRadius should have them. �Our AF-11X order filled, but waiting >>>>>> > on >>>>>> new >>>>>> > RadioWaves dual polarity feed horns before they can be put to use. >>>>>> > Brad >>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] ] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> > Of Keefe John >>>>>> > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 7:17 PM >>>>>> > To: [email protected] >>>>>> > Subject: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? >>>>>> > Which distributors will have AF-11X first? �Does anyone have ETAs? >>>>>> > Keefe >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > Members mailing list >>>>>> > [email protected] >>>>>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > Members mailing list >>>>>> > [email protected] >>>>>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Members mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Members mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members >>>>>> � >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Members mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members >>>>>> � >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Members mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members >>> -- >>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as >>> part >>> of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
