I think George said he had a SAF 6 GHz link that modulates down
automatically but needs a kick in the pants to modulate back up? And
SAF is not exactly a fly-by-night outfit. My point is hitless ACM
seems to be a nontrivial feature to implement. Exalt kept promising
auto xmt power along with ACM on their G2 radios, did they every
deliver it? I heard frequency coordinators stopped coordinating links
that way because it seemed to be a fictional feature.
*From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, November 19, 2016 10:45 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First?
I guess what you mean is that you engineered your link so that rain
fade does not cause you issues. Yes, definately important to pay
attention to your climate.
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016, 10:36 AM Bill Prince <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Sure does depend on your precipitation zone. You can also engineer
the link for whatever performance you need. None of our 11 GHz
links experience rain fade, but we don't have any longer than 10
miles.
As for performance, I guess the final arbiter would be the number
of bits/Hz. That is almost binary. So then you have to look at the
bits/Hz/$?
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 11/19/2016 8:27 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I don’t expect rain fade at 11 GHz but I am in Utah.
*From:*Ken Hohhof
*Sent:*Saturday, November 19, 2016 9:17 AM
*To:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First?
Some random thoughts on AF-11x:
1) Traditionally a licensed backhaul vendor has been expected
to have a complete line which for FCC means 6, 11, 18, 23 GHz.
When Ubiquiti or Mimosa chooses to cherry pick 11 GHz, it’s
like a convenience store that doesn’t carry everything you
need to stock your refrigerator, just milk and bread. You
will need 2 vendors unless you never have short or long links,
or areas where you can’t coordinate an 11 GHz link.
2) I assume these are OFDM like the other AFx radios? It’s
not obvious what performance advantages OFDM brings to this
application, and it does add overhead for things like cyclic
prefix and pilot tones, as well as latency and peak/avg ratio
issues. It may have implementation advantages, but
traditionally licensed radios have valued performance over
everything else.
3) I have several AF-5x links and I like them, the software is
kind of barebones though. I’m always surprised when I look
for something in the stats or logs and find it isn’t
monitored. You’d think software would be a strength for them.
Mimosa seems more creative, and even a 10 year old Orthogon
radio has more monitoring and troubleshooting tools. I guess
software is something that can improve over time, although the
AFx firmware doesn’t seem to get many updates.
4) With licensed links we are more likely to be putting them
on commercial towers where we may be collocated with the big
guys. Commercial tower owners are starting to insist on
attention to low PIM (passive intermod). N connectors and
coax jumpers would seem to invite PIM problems more than a
slip-fit waveguide connection to the antenna.
5) RF performance of most licensed radios is per specs. Where
the problems occur is often features like ACM, data buffers,
etc. If you are using 11 GHz, you are probably expecting rain
fades. How well has the vendor implemented adaptive coding
and modulation, is it truly hitless, does it use the max xmt
power at each modulation, etc.
6) Always pay close attention to xmt power at each
modulation. The headline specs fors some radio may say
4096QAM and 26 dBm xmt power, but as you look at the detailed
specs, the xmt power at 4096QAM may be 21 dBm, and you may not
get that 26 dBm at anything over 64QAM. I would imagine this
is especially important with an OFDM radio, since high
modulation OFDM tends to have a high peak/avg ratio, requiring
more headroom in the power amp.
7) The choice of coax connectors means you can easily extend
the distance from radio to antenna, but you probably won’t due
to coax loss. Most licensed radios have all sorts of adapter
options for remote mounts and waveguide, which is more
expensive than coax but higher performance.
*From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Josh
Reynolds
*Sent:* Saturday, November 19, 2016 9:10 AM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First?
If they were really that out of touch given the context of the
world market, they wouldn't have product lines doubling in net
revenue quarter over quarter.
On Nov 19, 2016 7:27 AM, "Mike Hammett" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Yeah, but they have a fundamental problem. Company-wide they
are out of touch with their customers and what they need as
well as what the rest of the market offers.
Examples:
Still no SFPs on radios.
AF11 has a channel width from the 2000s.
AF11 isn't nearly as spectrally efficient as they think it is.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Josh Reynolds" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent: *Friday, November 18, 2016 10:14:45 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First?
I know of a company that already has 8 links deployed that
they replaced existing radios with.
They built their own radio core. (Second time for UBNT, if you
count Invictus core and then this one... Not counting the ones
they made before UBNT.)
You underestimate them a lot. They're making more money across
the board and investing even more money in R&D and labor than
they ever have. The past few years they've made major internal
changes, and things are just now starting to bare fruit from
those decisions.
They also have a huge cash reserve, and it wouldn't surprise
me at all for them to start making acquisitions if they choose to.
On Nov 18, 2016 9:50 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
this isnt my usual asshole distrust of UBNT, I know UBNT
chuck is behind it, so its solid gear, but are people
really ready to put their faith in the limited and $$
spectrum on UBNT?
On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 6:18 PM, Josh Reynolds
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
They are designing for a lot of different mounting
options, but they have to hit the ones that are the
easiest sells out the gate.
Stay tuned.
On Nov 18, 2016 5:44 PM, "George Skorup"
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
We have RadioWaves HP2 and HP3s' in a couple
flavors. HPx-11R, Remec round for Trango ApexPlus
and HPx-11EX, for Exalt G2. Then we have Trango
AD11G2-S2's and 3-S2's for ApexPlus, Remec round.
So obviously we wouldn't be able to do the
feedhorn swap on those.
The RadioWaves 11EX are single-pol only, so those
would need the feedhorn swapped. But the 11R is
where it makes sense for the Remec adapter plate,
especially in the case of the Trango dishes.
So for me it would come down to $250-300? for the
adapter plate vs $400? for a new RW feedhorn vs
$1k for a whole new dish.
This would probably be half as difficult if UBNT
would've designed for waveguide, IMO.
On 11/18/2016 2:13 PM, Brad Belton wrote:
Right, I see the RadioWaves DP N-Type feed,
but we�re looking/hoping someone comes out
with a REMEC round to DP N-Type adapter.�
�
Quicker, cheaper than replacing the feed horn
and could be used on any antenna with a REMEC
round feed horn�not just a RadioWaves antenna.
�
Brad
�
*From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf
Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, November 18, 2016 2:08 PM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have
AF-11X First?
�
Non-UBNT licensed dish to N connectors and
radio mount.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
<http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange
<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP
<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Brad Belton" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent: *Friday, November 18, 2016 2:06:47 PM
*Subject: *Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have
AF-11X First?
So, what are we looking for?� SFP port?
�
I don�t see any REMEC round to dual polarity
N-Type adapters in your pictures!� <grin>
�
Brad
�
*From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf
Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, November 18, 2016 2:02 PM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have
AF-11X First?
�
https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/photos/a.997555730369879.1073741834.186874744771319/997557797036339/?type=3&theater
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
<http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange
<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP
<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Brad Belton" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent: *Friday, November 18, 2016 10:09:25 AM
*Subject: *Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have
AF-11X First?
You'll need to order a new feed horn for your
RadioWaves antenna. �I don't
have the SKUs yet, but I'm hearing they might
be shipping by end of the
month or early next. �They are basically a
standard dual polarity N-Type
feed horn except the feed horn "kit" also
comes with a UBNT specific
mounting bracket for the radio.
I wish there was a REMEC round to dual
polarity N-Type adapter available.
Sure would be easier than a feed horn
swap...and likely less expensive too.
I've got a call into Pasternack to see if such
an adapter is even feasible.
I'm thinking it is, but would depend on demand.
Brad
�
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Keefe John
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 9:59 AM
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have
AF-11X First?
What was on the dish you had before? �Can I
make these work on a a
Radiowaves Dragonwave dish?
On 11/17/2016 8:54 PM, Brad Belton wrote:
> DoubleRadius should have them. �Our AF-11X
order filled, but waiting on
new
> RadioWaves dual polarity feed horns before
they can be put to use.
>
> Brad
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf
> Of Keefe John
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 7:17 PM
> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X
First?
>
> Which distributors will have AF-11X first?
�Does anyone have ETAs?
>
> Keefe
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members mailing list
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members
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�
_______________________________________________
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�
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If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't
see your team as part of yourself you have already failed
as part of the team.
