Conversations with them, their forum, super users, etc. I don't typically speak out unless I know what I'm talking about.
1.2 gigabit... which is an aggregate measurement, so only 600 each way. 600 megabit on two polarities is 300 megabit per polarity. Breakthrough pricing, breakthrough price especially given the aggregate performance, not breakthrough performance. One of their super users doubted me, took it to them, confirmed it. Their response was that standard radios can't use the other polarity at higher modulations, therefore their radio "uses" that spectrum whether it uses it or not. That prompted the XPIC question I asked a while back that Trango answered within the past week. Oh, and their radios aren't yet doing 300 meg per polarity, only about 250. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 12:01:19 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? >>>> but they count one channel and both polarities as one channel, doubling >>>> their performance and ignoring that they're using twice the spectrum. Where are you getting that from Mike ? Taking a look at the last few pages of the AF11x Data Sheet, what you are stating above doesn't appear to be factual. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hammett" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 12:30:08 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? <blockquote> It isn't, though. UBNT gets worse bits/hz than other vendors. I'm not sure how they arranged that. They think they get better, but they count one channel and both polarities as one channel, doubling their performance and ignoring that they're using twice the spectrum. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Prince" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 10:35:59 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? Sure does depend on your precipitation zone. You can also engineer the link for whatever performance you need. None of our 11 GHz links experience rain fade, but we don't have any longer than 10 miles. As for performance, I guess the final arbiter would be the number of bits/Hz. That is almost binary. So then you have to look at the bits/Hz/$? bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 11/19/2016 8:27 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: <blockquote> I don’t expect rain fade at 11 GHz but I am in Utah. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 9:17 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? Some random thoughts on AF-11x: 1) Traditionally a licensed backhaul vendor has been expected to have a complete line which for FCC means 6, 11, 18, 23 GHz. When Ubiquiti or Mimosa chooses to cherry pick 11 GHz, it’s like a convenience store that doesn’t carry everything you need to stock your refrigerator, just milk and bread. You will need 2 vendors unless you never have short or long links, or areas where you can’t coordinate an 11 GHz link. 2) I assume these are OFDM like the other AFx radios? It’s not obvious what performance advantages OFDM brings to this application, and it does add overhead for things like cyclic prefix and pilot tones, as well as latency and peak/avg ratio issues. It may have implementation advantages, but traditionally licensed radios have valued performance over everything else. 3) I have several AF-5x links and I like them, the software is kind of barebones though. I’m always surprised when I look for something in the stats or logs and find it isn’t monitored. You’d think software would be a strength for them. Mimosa seems more creative, and even a 10 year old Orthogon radio has more monitoring and troubleshooting tools. I guess software is something that can improve over time, although the AFx firmware doesn’t seem to get many updates. 4) With licensed links we are more likely to be putting them on commercial towers where we may be collocated with the big guys. Commercial tower owners are starting to insist on attention to low PIM (passive intermod). N connectors and coax jumpers would seem to invite PIM problems more than a slip-fit waveguide connection to the antenna. 5) RF performance of most licensed radios is per specs. Where the problems occur is often features like ACM, data buffers, etc. If you are using 11 GHz, you are probably expecting rain fades. How well has the vendor implemented adaptive coding and modulation, is it truly hitless, does it use the max xmt power at each modulation, etc. 6) Always pay close attention to xmt power at each modulation. The headline specs fors some radio may say 4096QAM and 26 dBm xmt power, but as you look at the detailed specs, the xmt power at 4096QAM may be 21 dBm, and you may not get that 26 dBm at anything over 64QAM. I would imagine this is especially important with an OFDM radio, since high modulation OFDM tends to have a high peak/avg ratio, requiring more headroom in the power amp. 7) The choice of coax connectors means you can easily extend the distance from radio to antenna, but you probably won’t due to coax loss. Most licensed radios have all sorts of adapter options for remote mounts and waveguide, which is more expensive than coax but higher performance. From: Af [ mailto:[email protected] ] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 9:10 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? If they were really that out of touch given the context of the world market, they wouldn't have product lines doubling in net revenue quarter over quarter. On Nov 19, 2016 7:27 AM, "Mike Hammett" < [email protected] > wrote: Yeah, but they have a fundamental problem. Company-wide they are out of touch with their customers and what they need as well as what the rest of the market offers. Examples: Still no SFPs on radios. AF11 has a channel width from the 2000s. AF11 isn't nearly as spectrally efficient as they think it is. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Josh Reynolds" < [email protected] > To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 10:14:45 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? I know of a company that already has 8 links deployed that they replaced existing radios with. They built their own radio core. (Second time for UBNT, if you count Invictus core and then this one... Not counting the ones they made before UBNT.) You underestimate them a lot. They're making more money across the board and investing even more money in R&D and labor than they ever have. The past few years they've made major internal changes, and things are just now starting to bare fruit from those decisions. They also have a huge cash reserve, and it wouldn't surprise me at all for them to start making acquisitions if they choose to. On Nov 18, 2016 9:50 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" < [email protected] > wrote: <blockquote> this isnt my usual asshole distrust of UBNT, I know UBNT chuck is behind it, so its solid gear, but are people really ready to put their faith in the limited and $ spectrum on UBNT? On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 6:18 PM, Josh Reynolds < [email protected] > wrote: <blockquote> They are designing for a lot of different mounting options, but they have to hit the ones that are the easiest sells out the gate. Stay tuned. On Nov 18, 2016 5:44 PM, "George Skorup" < [email protected] > wrote: <blockquote> We have RadioWaves HP2 and HP3s' in a couple flavors. HPx-11R, Remec round for Trango ApexPlus and HPx-11EX, for Exalt G2. Then we have Trango AD11G2-S2's and 3-S2's for ApexPlus, Remec round. So obviously we wouldn't be able to do the feedhorn swap on those. The RadioWaves 11EX are single-pol only, so those would need the feedhorn swapped. But the 11R is where it makes sense for the Remec adapter plate, especially in the case of the Trango dishes. So for me it would come down to $250-300? for the adapter plate vs $400? for a new RW feedhorn vs $1k for a whole new dish. This would probably be half as difficult if UBNT would've designed for waveguide, IMO. On 11/18/2016 2:13 PM, Brad Belton wrote: <blockquote> Right, I see the RadioWaves DP N-Type feed, but we�re looking/hoping someone comes out with a REMEC round to DP N-Type adapter.� � Quicker, cheaper than replacing the feed horn and could be used on any antenna with a REMEC round feed horn�not just a RadioWaves antenna. � Brad � From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 2:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? � Non-UBNT licensed dish to N connectors and radio mount. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Brad Belton" < [email protected] > To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 2:06:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? So, what are we looking for?� SFP port? � I don�t see any REMEC round to dual polarity N-Type adapters in your pictures!� <grin> � Brad � From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 2:02 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? � https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/photos/a.997555730369879.1073741834.186874744771319/997557797036339/?type=3&theater ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Brad Belton" < [email protected] > To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 10:09:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? You'll need to order a new feed horn for your RadioWaves antenna. �I don't have the SKUs yet, but I'm hearing they might be shipping by end of the month or early next. �They are basically a standard dual polarity N-Type feed horn except the feed horn "kit" also comes with a UBNT specific mounting bracket for the radio. I wish there was a REMEC round to dual polarity N-Type adapter available. Sure would be easier than a feed horn swap...and likely less expensive too. I've got a call into Pasternack to see if such an adapter is even feasible. I'm thinking it is, but would depend on demand. Brad � -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] ] On Behalf Of Keefe John Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 9:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? What was on the dish you had before? �Can I make these work on a a Radiowaves Dragonwave dish? On 11/17/2016 8:54 PM, Brad Belton wrote: > DoubleRadius should have them. �Our AF-11X order filled, but waiting on new > RadioWaves dual polarity feed horns before they can be put to use. > > Brad > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] ] On Behalf > Of Keefe John > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 7:17 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [WISPA Members] Who will have AF-11X First? > > Which distributors will have AF-11X first? �Does anyone have ETAs? > > Keefe > > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members > > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members _______________________________________________ Members mailing list [email protected] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members _______________________________________________ Members mailing list [email protected] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members � _______________________________________________ Members mailing list [email protected] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members � _______________________________________________ Members mailing list [email protected] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. </blockquote> <blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote>
