I think that 'undefined' refers to the resultant state of an algorithm (like a mathematical computation) where the result is undefined. For example, if the algorithm is not finished running, the result would be undefined. In the case where a mathematical algorithm would need to be applied to more complicated situations your program might need to solve and resolve hundreds and thousands and millions of computations. As the methodology is applied to more and more complicated problems, my opinion is that you would have to find a way abbreviate some of these computations even while you make them more complex in order to deal with more subtle variations. I feel that variations of compressed representations of numbers have to be used - but - they have to be used with variations of computational methods which can operate on these different compressions of numbers without decompressing them to convert them to some common format. Since you said that the mathematics that you used should be familiar from undergraduate courses in mathematics and since you pursued the criticisms that have been made in an unusually thoughtful manner I feel that it would make sense for me to try to understand your paper. As soon as I have time I will probably ask you to give me some explanations and perhaps a few simple worked examples. I don't have the time or the skills to carefully examine many papers unless the author has shown some greater sensibility toward the subtleties of the problem and a wisdom to be willing to provide some insight about the paper. Are you going to be a teacher? So there is no approach that will never lead to an undefined result (as, for example, in the case where a particularly complicated algorithm would take a surprisingly long time to complete). So I believe that you would need some very unusual methods of computation in order to make advances in the field. After having many conversations with a lot of crazy men - (like Matt) - I can describe a little about what those algorithms would be like, but I don't know how to create them. The interesting thing is that I feel that I can probably make primitive versions of some of the ideas that I have. While these primitive variations won't work efficiently they still might turn out to be interesting. Coming up with a great example is impossible but coming up with something unusual is very possible. Jim Bromer
On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 8:59 PM Mohammadreza Alidoust < [email protected]> wrote: > Thank you for your email. You know, it is not about time management and > its worth. I am here to learn and I appreciate your comments and criticism. > > What approach would you suggest that will never lead to undefined? > > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2019, 3:25 PM Jim Bromer <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Mohammadreza said, "I think "intelligence" means optimization. So, if it >> is true, how can we tell an AGI agent to act optimally? e.g. with IF-THEN >> rules? definitely Not! These rules may lead to unforeseen states." >> >> If-Then rules are not the only application of discrete reasoning that are >> possible. In fact, when you talk about "optimization" you are talking about >> using mathematics to describe a discrete 'kind of thing'. Mathematical >> formula can lead to unforeseen states when they are applied to >> computational issues. Turing's Halting Problem is an example (- I am >> assuming that 'undefined' has a strong relation to 'unforeseen' as you used >> it.) You need to apply the mathematics to a 'kind of situation' and the >> idea that your mathematical formula might not lead to 'unforeseen states' >> when it is actually being used is naïve. >> >> Multiplication of an integer product has an uneven compressibility rate. >> OK, maybe I am talking about division. Division not only has a uneven >> compressibility rate it has an uneven deterministic rate. This has nothing >> to do with your paper.. So now the choice you have is: Do you take the time >> to understand what I am talking about? Do you take the time to understand >> how this might apply to your interest in AI / AGI? These are not trivial >> problems for you solve. How do you come to a conclusion about whether you >> should take the time to try to understand my criticism (and how it might be >> relevant to you) if I cannot make it easy for you to understand in a few >> minutes of reading? The conference is just about to start. Is it really >> worth your time to think about what I am trying to say? Right now it is not >> worth your time to respond. In a few years it will probably be very >> relevant to what you would like to do. >> Jim Bromer >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 10:09 PM Mohammadreza Alidoust < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Thank you. Sure, visualizations help in better understanding. However I >>> do not believe that the model contains difficult mathematics. BSc Students >>> of control engineering in their third or fourth year, study state-space >>> representation in their Modern Control Engineering course. >>> >>> Anyway, I think AGI is NOT POSSIBLE without mathematics. >>> I think "intelligence" means optimization. So, if it is true, how can we >>> tell an AGI agent to act optimally? e.g. with IF-THEN rules? definitely >>> Not! These rules may lead to unforeseen states. >>> All of the AI algorithms have a mathematical formulation behind. Can >>> anyone name an AI algorithm which has no mathematical background? >>> >>> I think if the hypothesis "intelligence is optimization" is true, we >>> have to, first devise an optimization framework for our problem space. That >>> optimization framework enables our agent to act intelligent in that space. >>> AGI is, in my view, an infinite problem-space. So, the question is: What >>> is able to cover the infinite better than the mathematics? >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 4:31 PM Manuel Korfmann <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I guess he meant: It’s difficult to understand all these mathematical >>>> equations. Visualizations are better at transporting ideas in a way that >>>> almost everyone can understand easily. >>>> >>>> On 31. Jul 2019, at 13:46, Mohammadreza Alidoust < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thank you for reading my paper. I wish you success too. >>>> >>>> Could you please explain more about the readership? I am afraid I did >>>> not get the point. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Mohammadreza Alidoust >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 2:14 PM Stefan Reich via AGI < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> If someone paid me to go, I'd go... :-) >>>>> >>>>> > http://agi-conf.org/2019/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/paper_21.pdf >>>>> >>>>> I like the stages you define in your paper (infancy, decision making, >>>>> expert). Sounds reasonable. >>>>> >>>>> I pretty much erased mathematical formulas from my brain though, even >>>>> though I have studied those things. These days I prefer to think in >>>>> natural >>>>> language or code. Increases the readership exponentially too. :-) >>>>> >>>>> Many greetings and best wishes to you >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 at 02:13, Mohammadreza Alidoust < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Stefan Reich, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you. I do not know whether submitting my paper before official >>>>>> publication by Springer is against their copyrights or not. I am not sure >>>>>> about their rules. I will ask the authorities when I arrived Shenzhen and >>>>>> inform you. >>>>>> >>>>>> However I recommend not to miss the AGI-19. >>>>>> http://agi-conf.org/2019/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Mohammadreza Alidoust >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Stefan Reich >>>>> BotCompany.de // Java-based operating systems >>>>> >>>> >>>> *Artificial General Intelligence List <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest>* > / AGI / see discussions <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + > participants <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + delivery > options <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> Permalink > <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/Tf27122c71ce3b240-Mb4af70df403ca73f32998ed6> > ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/Tf27122c71ce3b240-M465e8879e402d082ccfa0e90 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
