Dear Jim Bromer, Thank you. I would be glad to describe the model if you ask. Also, I would be glad to see your works and results.
Best wishes, Mohammadreza Alidoust On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 6:26 AM Jim Bromer <[email protected]> wrote: > I think that 'undefined' refers to the resultant state of an algorithm > (like a mathematical computation) where the result is undefined. For > example, if the algorithm is not finished running, the result would be > undefined. In the case where a mathematical algorithm would need to be > applied to more complicated situations your program might need to solve and > resolve hundreds and thousands and millions of computations. As the > methodology is applied to more and more complicated problems, my opinion is > that you would have to find a way abbreviate some of these computations > even while you make them more complex in order to deal with more subtle > variations. I feel that variations of compressed representations of numbers > have to be used - but - they have to be used with variations of > computational methods which can operate on these different compressions of > numbers without decompressing them to convert them to some common format. > Since you said that the mathematics that you used should be familiar from > undergraduate courses in mathematics and since you pursued the criticisms > that have been made in an unusually thoughtful manner I feel that it would > make sense for me to try to understand your paper. As soon as I have time I > will probably ask you to give me some explanations and perhaps a few simple > worked examples. I don't have the time or the skills to carefully examine > many papers unless the author has shown some greater sensibility toward the > subtleties of the problem and a wisdom to be willing to provide some > insight about the paper. Are you going to be a teacher? > So there is no approach that will never lead to an undefined result (as, > for example, in the case where a particularly complicated algorithm would > take a surprisingly long time to complete). So I believe that you would > need some very unusual methods of computation in order to make advances in > the field. After having many conversations with a lot of crazy men - (like > Matt) - I can describe a little about what those algorithms would be like, > but I don't know how to create them. The interesting thing is that I feel > that I can probably make primitive versions of some of the ideas that I > have. While these primitive variations won't work efficiently they still > might turn out to be interesting. Coming up with a great example is > impossible but coming up with something unusual is very possible. > Jim Bromer > > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 8:59 PM Mohammadreza Alidoust < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Thank you for your email. You know, it is not about time management and >> its worth. I am here to learn and I appreciate your comments and criticism. >> >> What approach would you suggest that will never lead to undefined? >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 1, 2019, 3:25 PM Jim Bromer <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Mohammadreza said, "I think "intelligence" means optimization. So, if it >>> is true, how can we tell an AGI agent to act optimally? e.g. with IF-THEN >>> rules? definitely Not! These rules may lead to unforeseen states." >>> >>> If-Then rules are not the only application of discrete reasoning that >>> are possible. In fact, when you talk about "optimization" you are talking >>> about using mathematics to describe a discrete 'kind of thing'. >>> Mathematical formula can lead to unforeseen states when they are applied to >>> computational issues. Turing's Halting Problem is an example (- I am >>> assuming that 'undefined' has a strong relation to 'unforeseen' as you used >>> it.) You need to apply the mathematics to a 'kind of situation' and the >>> idea that your mathematical formula might not lead to 'unforeseen states' >>> when it is actually being used is naïve. >>> >>> Multiplication of an integer product has an uneven compressibility rate. >>> OK, maybe I am talking about division. Division not only has a uneven >>> compressibility rate it has an uneven deterministic rate. This has nothing >>> to do with your paper.. So now the choice you have is: Do you take the time >>> to understand what I am talking about? Do you take the time to understand >>> how this might apply to your interest in AI / AGI? These are not trivial >>> problems for you solve. How do you come to a conclusion about whether you >>> should take the time to try to understand my criticism (and how it might be >>> relevant to you) if I cannot make it easy for you to understand in a few >>> minutes of reading? The conference is just about to start. Is it really >>> worth your time to think about what I am trying to say? Right now it is not >>> worth your time to respond. In a few years it will probably be very >>> relevant to what you would like to do. >>> Jim Bromer >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 10:09 PM Mohammadreza Alidoust < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you. Sure, visualizations help in better understanding. However I >>>> do not believe that the model contains difficult mathematics. BSc Students >>>> of control engineering in their third or fourth year, study state-space >>>> representation in their Modern Control Engineering course. >>>> >>>> Anyway, I think AGI is NOT POSSIBLE without mathematics. >>>> I think "intelligence" means optimization. So, if it is true, how can >>>> we tell an AGI agent to act optimally? e.g. with IF-THEN rules? definitely >>>> Not! These rules may lead to unforeseen states. >>>> All of the AI algorithms have a mathematical formulation behind. Can >>>> anyone name an AI algorithm which has no mathematical background? >>>> >>>> I think if the hypothesis "intelligence is optimization" is true, we >>>> have to, first devise an optimization framework for our problem space. That >>>> optimization framework enables our agent to act intelligent in that space. >>>> AGI is, in my view, an infinite problem-space. So, the question is: What >>>> is able to cover the infinite better than the mathematics? >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 4:31 PM Manuel Korfmann <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I guess he meant: It’s difficult to understand all these mathematical >>>>> equations. Visualizations are better at transporting ideas in a way that >>>>> almost everyone can understand easily. >>>>> >>>>> On 31. Jul 2019, at 13:46, Mohammadreza Alidoust < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for reading my paper. I wish you success too. >>>>> >>>>> Could you please explain more about the readership? I am afraid I did >>>>> not get the point. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Mohammadreza Alidoust >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 2:14 PM Stefan Reich via AGI < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> If someone paid me to go, I'd go... :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> > http://agi-conf.org/2019/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/paper_21.pdf >>>>>> >>>>>> I like the stages you define in your paper (infancy, decision making, >>>>>> expert). Sounds reasonable. >>>>>> >>>>>> I pretty much erased mathematical formulas from my brain though, even >>>>>> though I have studied those things. These days I prefer to think in >>>>>> natural >>>>>> language or code. Increases the readership exponentially too. :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Many greetings and best wishes to you >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 at 02:13, Mohammadreza Alidoust < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Stefan Reich, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. I do not know whether submitting my paper before official >>>>>>> publication by Springer is against their copyrights or not. I am not >>>>>>> sure >>>>>>> about their rules. I will ask the authorities when I arrived Shenzhen >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> inform you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However I recommend not to miss the AGI-19. >>>>>>> http://agi-conf.org/2019/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> Mohammadreza Alidoust >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Stefan Reich >>>>>> BotCompany.de // Java-based operating systems >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Artificial General Intelligence List > <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest>* / AGI / see discussions > <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + participants > <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + delivery options > <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> Permalink > <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/Tf27122c71ce3b240-M465e8879e402d082ccfa0e90> > ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/Tf27122c71ce3b240-Me9c77cd1e50d5d217059d265 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
