Jim,
I read this thread and grow more and more alarmed. Everything that happened in Aeronautical Engineering was tied to a principle. A principle is a mathematical statement that descibes a law of nature. A principle can be used to engineer other things, such as AGI or airplanes, because it is sufficiently mathematical for that purpose, but can not itself be engineered because it is natural. That's what makes it a principle. Aeronautical Engineering started when the forces of lift, drag and propulsion were explained in terms of Newton's equations. That is the principle. Knowing this principle, useful replication became possible because the space of possibilities had been sufficiently narrowed down, and everything else being said in this thread followed. Without the principle, we would be allowed to believe that the feathers of birds are "creative" or "intelligent" in some way because they can "reason" and they "know" how to make the bird fly. In AGI, there is no principle. For some time now I have been proposing emergent inference (EI) as a principle for AGI. EI is a mathematical statement, it is mathematical enough to be used for engineering AGI, and it can not be engineered itself because is is a natural law. There is evidence that EI, and what we today call intelligence, have something to do with each other. Furthermore, the mechanism of EI is such that it would not be discovered even if a full synapse-to-synapse replication of the entire brain were made. Even in that case, EI would remain hidden. Brain replicators and reverse-engineers are not after EI because they don't know EI exists. I feel EI must be seriously considered. On a different note, the Superconducting Supercollider (SSC) was not intended to replicate anything, except of course that testing it would have required to replicate many experiments that had been already performed, to make sure it works. The SSC was intended to observe the Higgs boson. I should know. I worked on the SSC for years until it was cancelled by Congress. And yes, physicists miss the observer, but not totally, they just don't know what to do about the observer. Sergio From: Jim Bromer [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:53 AM To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] Happy 100th Birthday Alan Turing - No, computers will never think, but machines will! On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 2:15 AM, Colin Geoffrey Hales <[email protected]> wrote: Physicists get the need for replication, but totally miss the need for the observer in science. Neuroscientists are examine the physics of the observer, and total miss the role of replication in science. Sheesh this is hard. That is an interesting point but you are dealing with two areas on the frontiers of science. It is a little too conservative. You want to be on the edge of new sciences but wish that they were framed with the dark stained oaks of the finest institutions. You sound a little like a caricature of a somewhat stuffy academic. In replying to you I did see that simple simulations that led to basic insights about how an airplane should be designed were a key part of the Wright's method of development so I am going to start doing some simple experiments in AGI. However, the argument that physicists do not get the need for observer and neuroscientists do not get the need for replication is not insightful. I don't know why the elimination of the necessity of working from a foundation of observed physical effects lost traction with some physicists, however, the popularization of the concept signifies the trivialization of the concept. The concept has been trivialized. Jim Bromer AGI | <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10561250-164650b2> | Modify Your Subscription <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10561250-164650b2> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10561250-164650b2> ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-c97d2393 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-2484a968 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
