Mike, On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]>wrote:
> **The mathematics here is slightly out. > > In the real world, there are actually infinite solutions to any given > problem, not one. > Not really. Excluding irrelevant variables, arbitrary ordering, etc., and utilizing iterative and recursive representation, real-world problems usually have a relatively small number of solutions. My point (and I think Ben's points) here is that that solutions must be at a high enough level for finite-sized machines (like us) to deal with the "details". Ben is trying to do this his way (with narrow AGI) and I am trying to do it my way (with high-level representation). What do YOU suggest? > In the rational realm which exists only in artificial mental and physical > worlds, people act as if there is one, but this is purely a **convention.** > > The solution to a mathematical problem like 2 +2 = ? of "4" is only one > of an infinity of possible solutions to that problem. To say "4" is "right" > is purely a convention, not an absolute truth. > > Modern maths, not to mention the entire history of maths, agrees with > this - we've been through this here quite a lot - you couldn't have paid > attention. > > If you think there is only one solution to anything, > I don't. What is the square root of 4? Of course, it is +/- 2. Is that one solution or two? It all depends on your REPRESENTATION. I suspect that the representations in our own heads are quite high level. > you are, philosophically speaking, extremely narrow-minded, > narrow-AI-minded, and not the kind of creative, resourceful, resilient > person who can always come up with new solutions to problems - both at a > specific and at a general, metacognitive level. > Now that you have demonstrated your complete lack of social skills, not to mention your lack of understanding the distinction between multiple solutions and single solutions with high-level representation... > AGI's are not machines that get the "right" solution. Those are narrow > AI's. > > AGI's are and will be creative machines that can endlessly produce new > solutions to any given problem, - endlessly give you new ideas. > A MUCH higher level than your thinking is a machine that produces seemingly (to us) many solutions simultaneously through high-level representation. > You are still buried in narrow AI. > No, you are still buried in narrow AGI. > In the real world, in science, technology, arts, history and the entire > economy there are not "right" solutions - the ipad isn't the "right" > solution to a tablet. There isn't a "right" AGI project. There are > "good-and-bad" solutions with pro's and con's, which are more or less > profitable and useful. > > This is a psychologically pluralist world - but our culture hasn't yet > fully made the transition, although it's happening relentlessly. We've > become culturally pluralist but not yet psychologically pluralist. You and > narrow AI are rigid, psychological monists. > > Shape up, open your mind, broaden your horizons, become a flexible thinker > - and completely rethink your approach to AGI. > You should check out your assumptions before letting loose with the flames. Regardless of how good your thoughts might be, jumping on people simply cuts you out of the conversations. Steve ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-c97d2393 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-2484a968 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
