Russ Hurlbut <[email protected]> wrote "patterns can (not) generate patchwork (*instances*)...patterns are totally non-generative" "Patchworks are continually and infinitely generative, like the real, everchanging, ever-evolvable world."
I think that the question of whether a patchwork instance can be generated by some pattern is not disputable (except from someone who has never seen how computational pattern generators can produce unexpected results, or by someone who demands that the word 'pattern' can only refer to the most common traditional meaning of the word). But whether any 3, 4,... patchwork instances can be produced by some pattern generator seems beyond our understanding. The other issue is whether it is possible to produce 'continuously' novel ways of modifying a pattern using a computational pattern generator. Jim Bromer On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Russ Hurlbut <[email protected]> wrote: > Tinter: > >> It is commonplace for an ordinary person to look at those mag. covers and >> say they "share/follow a pattern". (Note these covers are exceptions - most >> patchworks in any collection are very different from each other). >> > ... >> > The argument simply cannot be made that patterns can generate patchworks. >> They are OPPOSITES. A pattern can only have ONE part/shape/colour at any >> given point. It is set form. A patchwork can have INFINITE >> parts/shapes.colours at any given point. It is FREE form. One is always the >> same. One is always different.One is rational and routine, the other is >> creative and always out-of-the-routine. Patterns are totally non-generative >> - totally non-related to AGI, which is about how to deal with and produce >> new objects, new forms, new scenes - how to deal with a new face, scene, >> text, argument. ... how to deal not with a neatly patterned, toy blocks >> world, but a messy patchwork real world.Patchworks are continually and >> infinitely generative, like the real, everchanging, ever-evolvable world. >> > > Thank you for your clarifications - and as always, your links to examples > are appreciated. It appears that a key distinction that you are making is > that of "generative versus non-generative". To at least this reader, the > remaining differences appear to involve semantics. Perhaps introducing a > new term into the conversation - that of "instance" - may help to clarify > one's understanding. From the snippets above, it may appear to some that > "patchwork" and "pattern" have been overloaded with multiple contexts. > > For "instances": > "Most patchwork *instances* in any collection are very different from > each other" > "A pattern *instance *can only have ONE part/shape/colour at any given > point" > > For the [non-instance | mental construct | general concept | abstract > notion | whatever you want to call it]: > "patterns can (not) generate patchwork (*instances*)...patterns are > totally non-generative" > "Patchworks are continually and infinitely generative, like the real, > everchanging, ever-evolvable world." > > Using "pattern" in the non-instance context, one could argue that > evolution is a pattern - which can even have meta-patterns (e.g > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_of_evolution ). You obviously > disagree, so there is no point in further debate on this point. > > However, perhaps you can elucidate further the non-instance context of > "patchwork", if in fact you agree there is a distinction and assuming each > of the links provided are examples of patchwork *instances*. It is not > apparent from you discourse what the non-instance context of "patchwork" would > constitute. > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/24379807-f5817f28> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > -- Jim Bromer ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
