I respect Ben's work quite a bit, but I have to say I have never understood the connection between mathematics and intelligence. Mathematics does seem to represent the best and most successful form of Platonism, or more generally, some type of certainty which exists in some realm that we can count with seemingly rock solid certainty.
So we can use it to compute with. I read with great interest AGI approaches based on geometry, as one paper posted recently here described. Still, I admit to having significant doubts as to how you get from geometric forms to thinking, and what justification there is for such an approach. Some of us, not me, are really born Pythagoreans -- that somehow everything boils down to numbers in the end. Mike A On 11/11/14, Ben Goertzel via AGI <[email protected]> wrote: > Jim, > > Hmmm... really, the blog post to which I linked in the email starting > this thread, is not very mathematical at all; it's more psychological > in nature really.... In that post, I'm more trying to show that > mind-related math can be rooted in psych, rather than vice versa... > > But yeah, I do think that the mind's pattern formation and recognition > processes can be formalized mathematically in terms of a fairly > elementary-looking framework. Though there is a lot of > specialization within this framework in the brain or in a > very-finite-resources AGI system like OpenCog, which creates a lot of > implementation complexity... > > -- Ben G > > On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Jim Bromer <[email protected]> wrote: >> You persist in your delusion that you could express your ideas >> mathematically and that they would constitute some kind of innovation >> for AGI. The problem is that information theory, algorithmic >> information theory and, lets call it, Goertzel's pattern information >> theory are all primitives. Even though these primitives can hold (or >> represent) more than one referent they are primitive forms that are >> just too unsophisticated for any significant growth in intelligence. >> (That is I don't think they would be able to gain enough traction to >> be used to grow intelligence because the application of multiple >> instances of information primitives inevitably lead to lossy and noisy >> implementations.) I am leaving this comment as a primitive criticism >> because I don't think you actually understand what I am trying to get >> at. The complex patterns that could be used to generate true >> intelligence may not be manifestations of these kinds of primitives >> because the generation of multiple patterns using these kinds of >> primitives may be effective or efficient. So, even if you guys realize >> that you have to achieve some higher insight you inevitably end up >> referring to the primitive forms (of information theoretic based AI >> conjectures) as if they are somehow going to end up becoming more >> sophisticated. >> Jim Bromer >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 7:40 AM, Ben Goertzel via AGI <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> Some fairly analytic-philosophical thoughts on the underpinnings of >>> intelligence, >>> >>> http://multiverseaccordingtoben.blogspot.hk/2014/11/grounding-representation-and-pattern-in.html >>> >>> -- >>> Ben Goertzel, PhD >>> http://goertzel.org >>> >>> "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one >>> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all >>> progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> AGI >>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> RSS Feed: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/24379807-653794b5 >>> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > -- > Ben Goertzel, PhD > http://goertzel.org > > "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one > persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all > progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
