To me that's like saying you don't see the connection between mathematics and airplanes ...
Sure, an airplane is not made of mathematics, except in a very abstract sense. And the Wright Brothers used an experimental rather than mathematical method to create their planes. But there's a reason folks designing airplanes these days study so much math in university... On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Mike Archbold via AGI <[email protected]> wrote: > I respect Ben's work quite a bit, but I have to say I have never > understood the connection between mathematics and intelligence. > Mathematics does seem to represent the best and most successful form > of Platonism, or more generally, some type of certainty which exists > in some realm that we can count with seemingly rock solid certainty. > > So we can use it to compute with. I read with great interest AGI > approaches based on geometry, as one paper posted recently here > described. Still, I admit to having significant doubts as to how you > get from geometric forms to thinking, and what justification there is > for such an approach. Some of us, not me, are really born > Pythagoreans -- that somehow everything boils down to numbers in the > end. > > Mike A > > On 11/11/14, Ben Goertzel via AGI <[email protected]> wrote: >> Jim, >> >> Hmmm... really, the blog post to which I linked in the email starting >> this thread, is not very mathematical at all; it's more psychological >> in nature really.... In that post, I'm more trying to show that >> mind-related math can be rooted in psych, rather than vice versa... >> >> But yeah, I do think that the mind's pattern formation and recognition >> processes can be formalized mathematically in terms of a fairly >> elementary-looking framework. Though there is a lot of >> specialization within this framework in the brain or in a >> very-finite-resources AGI system like OpenCog, which creates a lot of >> implementation complexity... >> >> -- Ben G >> >> On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Jim Bromer <[email protected]> wrote: >>> You persist in your delusion that you could express your ideas >>> mathematically and that they would constitute some kind of innovation >>> for AGI. The problem is that information theory, algorithmic >>> information theory and, lets call it, Goertzel's pattern information >>> theory are all primitives. Even though these primitives can hold (or >>> represent) more than one referent they are primitive forms that are >>> just too unsophisticated for any significant growth in intelligence. >>> (That is I don't think they would be able to gain enough traction to >>> be used to grow intelligence because the application of multiple >>> instances of information primitives inevitably lead to lossy and noisy >>> implementations.) I am leaving this comment as a primitive criticism >>> because I don't think you actually understand what I am trying to get >>> at. The complex patterns that could be used to generate true >>> intelligence may not be manifestations of these kinds of primitives >>> because the generation of multiple patterns using these kinds of >>> primitives may be effective or efficient. So, even if you guys realize >>> that you have to achieve some higher insight you inevitably end up >>> referring to the primitive forms (of information theoretic based AI >>> conjectures) as if they are somehow going to end up becoming more >>> sophisticated. >>> Jim Bromer >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 7:40 AM, Ben Goertzel via AGI <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> Some fairly analytic-philosophical thoughts on the underpinnings of >>>> intelligence, >>>> >>>> http://multiverseaccordingtoben.blogspot.hk/2014/11/grounding-representation-and-pattern-in.html >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ben Goertzel, PhD >>>> http://goertzel.org >>>> >>>> "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one >>>> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all >>>> progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>> AGI >>>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>>> RSS Feed: >>>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/24379807-653794b5 >>>> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Ben Goertzel, PhD >> http://goertzel.org >> >> "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one >> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all >> progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> AGI >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae >> Modify Your Subscription: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-deec6279 > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD http://goertzel.org "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
