See your point. But, remember airplanes fly in a 3 dimensional space, and an idea/thought always seems to be in the same "place," like a 0-dimensional space, which is not a space at all.
But, anyway, mathematics is important to AI. I guess I think there is a difference between finding AI *in* mathematics, or using mathematics as a processing physical/computational substrate. I think some researchers think in the platonic/math realm it is just a matter of uncovering the hidden intelligence INSIDE math. Need to consider it more... not that I have a better alternative at the moment, mind you... Mike A On 11/12/14, Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: > To me that's like saying you don't see the connection between > mathematics and airplanes ... > > Sure, an airplane is not made of mathematics, except in a very > abstract sense. And the Wright Brothers used an experimental rather > than mathematical method to create their planes. But there's a reason > folks designing airplanes these days study so much math in > university... > > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Mike Archbold via AGI <[email protected]> > wrote: >> I respect Ben's work quite a bit, but I have to say I have never >> understood the connection between mathematics and intelligence. >> Mathematics does seem to represent the best and most successful form >> of Platonism, or more generally, some type of certainty which exists >> in some realm that we can count with seemingly rock solid certainty. >> >> So we can use it to compute with. I read with great interest AGI >> approaches based on geometry, as one paper posted recently here >> described. Still, I admit to having significant doubts as to how you >> get from geometric forms to thinking, and what justification there is >> for such an approach. Some of us, not me, are really born >> Pythagoreans -- that somehow everything boils down to numbers in the >> end. >> >> Mike A >> >> On 11/11/14, Ben Goertzel via AGI <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Jim, >>> >>> Hmmm... really, the blog post to which I linked in the email starting >>> this thread, is not very mathematical at all; it's more psychological >>> in nature really.... In that post, I'm more trying to show that >>> mind-related math can be rooted in psych, rather than vice versa... >>> >>> But yeah, I do think that the mind's pattern formation and recognition >>> processes can be formalized mathematically in terms of a fairly >>> elementary-looking framework. Though there is a lot of >>> specialization within this framework in the brain or in a >>> very-finite-resources AGI system like OpenCog, which creates a lot of >>> implementation complexity... >>> >>> -- Ben G >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Jim Bromer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> You persist in your delusion that you could express your ideas >>>> mathematically and that they would constitute some kind of innovation >>>> for AGI. The problem is that information theory, algorithmic >>>> information theory and, lets call it, Goertzel's pattern information >>>> theory are all primitives. Even though these primitives can hold (or >>>> represent) more than one referent they are primitive forms that are >>>> just too unsophisticated for any significant growth in intelligence. >>>> (That is I don't think they would be able to gain enough traction to >>>> be used to grow intelligence because the application of multiple >>>> instances of information primitives inevitably lead to lossy and noisy >>>> implementations.) I am leaving this comment as a primitive criticism >>>> because I don't think you actually understand what I am trying to get >>>> at. The complex patterns that could be used to generate true >>>> intelligence may not be manifestations of these kinds of primitives >>>> because the generation of multiple patterns using these kinds of >>>> primitives may be effective or efficient. So, even if you guys realize >>>> that you have to achieve some higher insight you inevitably end up >>>> referring to the primitive forms (of information theoretic based AI >>>> conjectures) as if they are somehow going to end up becoming more >>>> sophisticated. >>>> Jim Bromer >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 7:40 AM, Ben Goertzel via AGI <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Some fairly analytic-philosophical thoughts on the underpinnings of >>>>> intelligence, >>>>> >>>>> http://multiverseaccordingtoben.blogspot.hk/2014/11/grounding-representation-and-pattern-in.html >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ben Goertzel, PhD >>>>> http://goertzel.org >>>>> >>>>> "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one >>>>> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all >>>>> progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>>> AGI >>>>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>>>> RSS Feed: >>>>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/24379807-653794b5 >>>>> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>>>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ben Goertzel, PhD >>> http://goertzel.org >>> >>> "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one >>> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all >>> progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> AGI >>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> RSS Feed: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae >>> Modify Your Subscription: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> AGI >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-deec6279 >> Modify Your Subscription: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > -- > Ben Goertzel, PhD > http://goertzel.org > > "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one > persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all > progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
