Hence the questions posed again: If souls do exist, are they a component of, parasite to or symbiant to a living entity?Do all living entities have souls? Why or why not? ~PM Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 15:52:34 +0000 Subject: Re: [agi] The Uploading vs. Downloading Debate From: [email protected] To: [email protected]
Your definition of soul is lacking the essential elements of spirituality and immortality. They are why most theists believe souls exist and most atheists don't. Calum On 31 December 2014 at 14:18, Steve Richfield via AGI <[email protected]> wrote: PM, et al, Your posting shows that you have, like 99+% of the population, been apparently brainwashed!!! Allow me to explain. If you look up the definition of soul in old pre-computer dictionaries, it refers to our own personal collections of memories, thoughts, feelings, etc. Then, along came computers, that could eventually have their own collections of memories, thoughts, etc., not to mention holding the memories, thoughts, etc, of prior living people. OH NO, Religion reduced to just bits in a computer!!! There MUST be more to us than THAT. So, along came other definitions designed to dodge the possibility of possible computer implementation. So, unless you hold the firm belief that whatever we are can NOT be held in a computer, which if you did you wouldn't be here on this forum, then souls most definitely DO exist. The legacy definition restated in AGI terms would be something like (improvements invited): soul: A particular entity's collection of memories, thoughts, feelings, etc., implemented in a substrate capable of continuing those thoughts, forming new feelings, and collecting additional memories. Having had MANY discussions about this with various religious adherents, they can NOT resolve this with their present religious beliefs, and so must choose which to accept. Until there are uploaded people walking around, it seems to be impossible to change a religious mindset. Note that this impinges directly on what psychologists call "locus of control". Most people fall into one of two clearly-delineated categories: 1. External locus of control, who believe that they are controlled by higher powers, e.g. God, government, schools,parents, etc., or 2. Internal locus of control, who believe that THEY are in control despite government, parents, schools, etc. Nearly all religious zealots have an eternal locus of control, while nearly all AGI zealots have an internal locus of control, so never shall these two groups agree on much of anything. A social phenomenon I have observed are those who believe that their knee-jerk feelings come directly from God, so they follow those feelings with the belief that they are of divine origin. Needless to say these people run into MANY problems as they let their unrestrained feelings guide their actions, as a shortcut to thinking. After watching one former consulting client send his corporation into meltdown doing this, I extracted his solemn promise NOT to do this again before accepting a subsequent assignment - only to watch him do this yet again. They can't seem to help how they think. They would probably continue doing this even after being uploaded/downloaded. Steve ========================= On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Piaget Modeler via AGI <[email protected]> wrote: A materialist would say that Souls don't exist: souls are just an idea to make people feel better about death. If souls do exist, are they a parasite or symbiant to a living entity,and do all living entities have souls? Why or why not? ~PM > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 22:03:10 -0500 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [agi] The Uploading vs. Downloading Debate > > On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 11:56:18PM +0800, Ben Goertzel via AGI wrote: > > > > However, it's a crude term, which is why Randal Koene advocates to talk > > about "substrate-independent minds" instead... > > > > -- Ben > > > Souls are substrate independant minds. > As information theory says, information can't be destroyed, > so the experience continues after the death of the material body. > Much as fermionic electrons that die in a circuit tranform > into bosonic information or heat entropy. > Such is the fate of any living thing. > > -- > Logan Streondj > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/19999924-4a978ccc > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription -- Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a six hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back full employment. AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
