I think it's possible that we'll eventually convert much of the matter in the universe into sentient units descended from the sort of systems we are presently...
On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Robert Levy <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm with you on this one, Alan. Uploading is a cult, it's creepy to > anyone outside the cult, and it's often associated with unsubstantiated > assumptions about the nature of experience / presence. > > When technology allows us to share subjectivity in a very > high-fidelity, high-bandwidth way, some humans will form clone colonies > that maintain a singular identity as new clones are added, and > be effectively immortal. > > If there's a way to stay synced over long distances you can even occupy > multiple planets. A virtualized body with either autonomy to act as part of > the colony, or with some insurance plan to have a new physical clone > synthesized from information in the event of total body loss would be good > too, but I'm not sure it would feel like continuous immortality. > > Those in the uploading cult would just as soon skip the continuity and go > right to the virtualized bodies. > > The human body's cells are 90% bacteria much of which we depend on for > survival, and 10% human cells. That jus goes to show how much of our > existence depends on the particular biological environment we live in, > which is part of why many transhumanists are eager to throw out physicality > altogether, or abstract it away anyhow. > > I'm not interested in dumping physicality, but I am 100% cosmist / > transhumanist. We'll probably develop the technology to evolve into > more resilient forms, perhaps nanobots instead of cellular life, and our > bodies can go anywhere, and we can have multiple kinds of bodies. > > As far as occupying multiple planets in a long chain stretching out into > interstellar frontiers, it will likely be a slow communication, limited by > the speed of light unless quantum non-locality can be harnessed > effectively. The farther out clones will likely diverge, perhaps in some > cases irrevocably. > > On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Alan Grimes via AGI <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> I read a goodly chunk of that 10 years to the singularity pile of text >> that The Goertzel pushed out the other day. >> >> In it, he threatened to upload all of his "friends"... >> >> >> I want to be perfectly clear here. I am not one of your "friends". I >> think being uploaded is only second worst to being tortured and then >> murdered, but only because of the "tortured" part. >> >> >> I'm posting this not just because I'm fed up with this bullshit, but >> also because I'm coming to a new realization that uploaders are a bunch >> of suicidal flatheads. =| >> >> The single unavoidable issue in uploading is the identity issue. That >> alone is a showstopper and should end any further consideration of the >> topic. Interestingly, I have noticed something extremely peculiar in the >> last few exchanges. ** THE UPLOADERS THEMSELVES SEEM TO WANT TO DIRECT >> THE DEBATE TOWARDS THE IDENTITY ISSUE!!! ** >> >> The reason for this is that the uploaders seem to want to confine the >> intellectual battle space to a zone that they can manage, but not really >> win. >> >> Their problem is that nothing about uploading makes any sense and that >> any dispassionate examination of the "post-upload" condition will reveal >> absolutely devastating problems that can only be avoided by not >> examining them and by directing the attention to already active battle >> spaces. >> >> No upload can possibly exist outside of a runtime environment equivalent >> to an operating system. No matter how hard you try to obscure this, or >> bullshit it away like Eugene Leitl does, this this is an absolute fact. >> >> Furthermore, because a person is catagorically dead very early in the >> uploaded process, said person has absolutely no control over what kind >> of alterations or "restraining bolts" are added to the runtime >> environment. None whatsoever! The being doing the uploading procedure is >> therefore all-powerful and the eager victim of this procedure is a >> fucking flathead and desirves whatever he gets. >> >> This is an inescapable truth. There is no law or safeguard that can >> possible protect the upload because the means for arbitrary tampering >> can evade any conceivable effort to police the procedure. Again, there >> is no rational reason to continue contemplating uploading. >> >> >> The second issue I want to cover here is this notion of the persona. I >> don't really understand it much but, according to the rothblat-creature >> it seems to be the summation of the affectations and charactoristics >> exhibited by the quirks of your neurology. The motivation for caring >> about persona seems to come from strong emotions that some people >> experience from their attachment systems. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory >> >> The thing to pay double-special close attention to here is that the way >> uploaders describe and promote "personalities"/"persona" etc. When you >> think about it for more than a few microseconds, you realize that what >> they are describing is a *TRAP*. They are proposing to trap your persona >> in something metaphorically equivalent to amber for the benefit of their >> own attachment emotions and nothing else. Because the person being >> uploaded dies in the process, that person receives no benefit, instead >> the language of people promoting uploading frequently make references to >> the preservation of attachment relationships. This is one of the central >> keys to uploading. They want to reduce you from a being that lives for >> itself to one that exists only to satisfy their own emotional needs to >> be with people they are used to being with. As such, the runtime >> environments for uploads will be designed specifically so that they >> continue to exhibit the traits that trigger the attachment response in >> the person doing the uploading and thus will not be permitted to be >> self-specifying self-designing self-actualizing sentient beings that >> they deserve to be. >> >> >> But wait, I'm not quite ready to press the button yet! Here's a little >> tidbit for those few of you with some measurable curvature to your >> skulls. What I am getting at is philosophy. What is it that makes a >> person? How exactly is a person put together? Why do people have >> distinct minds or personalities to begin with? >> >> Humans have minds because their DNA required a higher level of >> patterning to the behavior of the meat-pupets that the DNA needs to >> replicate. That is why minds exist. The mind functions by capturing the >> external environment in the form of a simulation which, simultaneously, >> constitutes a language that can be used for reason, memory, and all the >> other thinky-goodness that we get out of our brains. Running a >> simulation engine within a simulation and then closing the feedback loop >> will have -- um -- interesting effects.... >> >> But let's continue. What we call personality is not inherently valuable. >> It is merely an implementation quirk of the imperfect implementation of >> the biological mind and a function of that mind's experiences and >> proclivities. You may have heard "great minds think alike". What happens >> when everyone's minds quirks are ironed out to some arguably objective >> measure of perfection? The answer is simple: the "personality" vanishes >> and you get a billion instances of a standard human mind, sure they will >> each have unique memories and experiences but they won't really be >> unique in any interesting respect. >> >> What happens next? You see, the reason we have distinct minds at all is >> because our brains are separated from one another by a dozen or so >> layers of tissues, scalp, hair, several or more feet of air, and there >> is basically no bandwidth between brains. >> But what happens when you force everyone to exist within the same >> platform? One of two things will inevitably happen. Either you will >> enforce separation for the sake of preserving the much-cherished >> personality as above or you will witness a stunning phase change as >> inter-mindfile bandwidth, almost inevitably, shoots up exponentially and >> the minds congeal into a new superstructure. The reason for this >> shouldn't be too hard to picture. Early experimentation with inter-mind >> connections will cause the minds involved to adapt to be co-dependent >> (this is simply an extension of the adaptive processes one finds between >> the several parts of a natural brain and even in close family >> relationships or friendships). This will happen before anyone realizes >> it is happening, I would be surprised if it would take longer than a >> subjective week for this process to occur. >> >> I am not saying that this is necessarily bad, what I'm saying is that >> you are fucking flatheads for not realizing it will happen and are >> suffering from profound delusions about what it is you are proposing to >> do. =| >> >> -- >> IQ is a measure of how stupid you feel. >> >> Powers are not rights. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> AGI >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/18769370-bddcdfdc >> Modify Your Subscription: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> > > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
