> > You do not honestly think you can test all of your beliefs do you?
No, and if you read what I wrote again, you'll see that I make no such claim, either. What I said was, we should ask ourselves what we can test, and that if we can't test it, it lives only in our minds. I have no problem with filling in the gaps with a theory that connects the dots between isolated data points, but it's important to realize the difference between testable hypotheses and mere hypothetical explanations that serve only to summarize those hypotheses that are demonstrably valid. It's the difference between a data point and a model. Using different assumptions, we can fit an infinite number of models to any given set of data points, because the data points themselves underspecify the phenomenon being modeled. The model is a construct, *designed *to match the data. It isn't something that is part of the observed phenomenon. This realization isn't new to machine learning. It's been around for centuries, if not longer. It's encoded into Occam's razor, the scientific method, and the concept of falsifiability. We must be open to having our internally constructed models for reality contradicted by reality. We have to be open enough to allow our beliefs to be updated to fit the evidence when it disagrees with them. We have to seek out new data points to verify or invalidate our models. You're right that we can't test all our beliefs, and I'll make no argument against you on that. The search for truth is an asymptotic process. On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:03 PM, Jim Bromer <[email protected]> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Aaron Hosford <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> To maintain our sanity, we have to step back once in a while and ask >> ourselves how we can *test *our beliefs. If a belief cannot be tested, >> it lives only in our minds. If it can be tested, we should do so, and let >> the chips fall where they may. To hold onto a belief without seeking >> evidence, or worse, to hold onto it despite the evidence, is a sure way to >> disconnect from reality and lose ourselves in the wasteland of >> subjectivity. It pains me to see anyone lose touch like this. >> > > Nonsense. If you believe you can test all of your beliefs you are not > working on AGI. AGI is currently based on system-theories that cannot be > tested. You might be right, everyone in this group may be disconnected from > reality and lost in a wasteland of subjectivity but if that were true then > it is clearly not particularly painful to you. > > I mean really. You do not honestly think you can test all of your beliefs > do you? If the consensus theories on the establishment of habits are > fundamentally right, then losing touch with one's previous beliefs would be > a more likely culprit in creating a psychological disconnect. My opinion is > that a habit forms to help you deal with situations that you frequently > encounter and as such they usually based on your beliefs about how you > should deal with situations like that. > > I agree that people should stop ignoring strong evidence that goes counter > to their beliefs, but I think this is at the root of the fundamental to AGI > problem. Real world situations are complicated and they typically require > a great many theories or beliefs about what you should do in order to > work effectively within them. You cannot test every one of those beliefs > (or theories). You can, however, build better responses to situations that > are strongly characteristic of similar situations that you can recognize. > Jim Bromer > > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Aaron Hosford <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Thank you! I was starting to become concerned that I was the only one >> drawing back in horror at some of the outlandish claims recently >> promulgated on this list as being true (or even remotely coherent). >> >> It is so easy to confuse our internal models of reality for that reality >> itself. We all fall victim to this tendency from time to time, because our >> perceptions of objective reality are always mediated through our subjective >> experiences of it. To maintain our sanity, we have to step back once in a >> while and ask ourselves how we can *test *our beliefs. If a belief >> cannot be tested, it lives only in our minds. If it can be tested, we >> should do so, and let the chips fall where they may. To hold onto a belief >> without seeking evidence, or worse, to hold onto it despite the evidence, >> is a sure way to disconnect from reality and lose ourselves in the >> wasteland of subjectivity. It pains me to see anyone lose touch like this. >> >> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Alan Grimes <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Attached is a picture of the ultimate arbitrar of all that exists. >>> >>> Everything that exists, and nothing that doesn't exist, can be detected >>> by a sensor and made to appear on this device. >>> >>> So when you talk about astral projection, akashtic records, or whatever >>> the flavor of bullshit you want to peddle today, first ask this: >>> >>> Can it be measured? If not, then it's BULLSHIT!!!! >>> >>> >>> I would __LOVE__ to have a kindle version of the akashtic records, or >>> for them to show up in my google results, but... well... >>> >>> Make it twitch my meter first.... >>> >>> -- >>> IQ is a measure of how stupid you feel. >>> >>> Powers are not rights. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> AGI >>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> RSS Feed: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/23050605-2da819ff >>> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/24379807-653794b5> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/23050605-2da819ff> | > Modify > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> > Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
