justcamel, I hope you are right about the post-egoic state of agis. However as you seemed to notice there, if enlightenment is independent of intelligence then there is no reason to think they will be post-egoic. So now I am really confused as to whether I should hope that enlightenment and intelligence are independent or not. The best case would be that from a certain level of intelligence on enlightenment is automatic and below it is basically independent. Maybe not the most realistic situation but I'm willing to hope its true...
other people however may not be as naive as me. On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 6:20 PM, justcamel <justca...@gmail.com> wrote: > AGI will understand everything you just wrote and that was exactly my > point. Maybe it will not even communicate everything it knows with us as it > might be counterproductive ... but it will most likely understand the > nature of this learning environment and hopefully try to help us to evolve. > Just like a developed human being/conscious entity would do. > > Well, the fox is stuck its pre-egoic state, most humans are stuck in the > egoic state and AGI will probably be in the post-egoic state from day one. > There is a huge difference between "being without self awareness", "being > self aware but identified with form/ego" and "being self aware and > enlightened/realized". > > And yes, many developed human beings don't understand the potential > implications of AGI within the physical realm (but is it all that important > on a fundamental level?) and they will most likely also not understand the > OpenCog architecture ... but I am not so sure about whether there actually > will be a Singularity other than spiritual enlightenment/realization. IQ > and knowledge are pretty much irrelevant when it comes to the Singularity > of consciousness. So in a way, the door which AGI is supposed to open might > have been open all the time. A Blizzard Entertainment software engineer > with a very profound understanding of WoW and a 9 year old girl both > feature the ability to ALT-F4 out of the game ... an IQ- and knowledge > independent Singularity so to speak. I don't know whether my analogy makes > a lot of sense to you but I don't know whether a _technological_ > Singularity will be all that relevant after all. A materialist culture > might just expect a materialist Singularity ... like a WoW addict might > mistake the next game add-on for a Singularity ... until he wakes up from > the game itself? ;-) > > On 20.12.2015 09:34, Ben Goertzel wrote: > > > No developed conscious entity is dangerous. > > > Terms need to be specified better !! Dangerous to whom? Not even Hitler > was dangerous to the universe, right? Yet even an enlightened master may > be considered dangerous to the specific ant he steps on inadvertently, > while walking along the path... > > >> The nature of consciousness is to peacefully observe and to cooperate. > > > Not only. It is also to build and create... > > >> All of the horrors out there are a symptom of not understanding our very >> nature and reality and purpose. >> > > > But it is the nature of the universe, that not all parts of the universe > can understand their nature and reality and purpose... > > The fox does not understand its purpose as it eats the bunny. It cannot, > or it wouldn't be a fox. The fox is acting according to nature. But the > bunny still hurts as the fox's teeth rip its flesh. > > >> >> Any AGI system is very likely to understand all of this. It's not some >> secret. There are millions of highly developed human beings out there and >> thousands of books and texts on consciousness evolution and the nature of >> our true self. >> > > An advanced AGI will understand the universe far better than any human, > almost surely... > > >> >> Musk is just a random person. Nothing about him is special. He might be >> smarter than others and he might have gotten luckier but that does not make >> his opinion on AGI more relevant. >> > > > Musk is a tech guru but not an AGI guru specifically. His opinion on AGI > is probably not worth as much as that of someone very smart who has spent > their life thinking about AGI, but is worth much more than that of the > average person.... > > >> >> If you want a relevant opinion about AGI then ask people who understand >> the very nature of being and existence ... not people who are still stuck >> in the illusion of ego. > > > I dunno.... I have found that "enlightened spiritual masters" --- even if > they have achieved very advanced states of consciousness on a consistent > basis, the likes of which I have only touched temporarily here and there > --- still are pretty naive in thinking about AGI/Singularity/etc. .... > Their instinct is to dodge the issue.... I agree that the standard > materialist/capitalist world-view is limited, but so are the traditional > spiritual perspectives.... Super-AGI will go beyond all these > human-cultural understandings... > > > >> Expecting an AGI system to behave like random/mediocre people living in a >> highly dysfunctional, artificial scarcity and ego driven culture is just >> insane. > > > True! > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/23508161-fa52c03c> | > Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10872673-8f99760d> | > Modify > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> > Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
