Mike, There's nothing particularly creative about keyboards. The creativity comes from what uses the keyboard. Maybe that was your point, but if so the digression about a keyboard is just confusing.
In terms of a metaphor, I'm not sure I understand your point about "organizers". It seems to me to refer simply to that which we humans do, which in essence says "general intelligence is what we humans do." Unfortunately, I found this last email to be quite muddled. Actually, I am sympathetic to a lot of your ideas, Mike, but I also have to say that your tone is quite condescending. There are a lot of smart people on this list, as one would expect, and a little humility and respect on your part would go a long way. Saying things like "You see, AI-ers simply don't understand computers, or understand only half of them." More often than not you position yourself as the sole source of enlightened wisdom on AI and other subjects, and that does not make me want to get to know your ideas any better. Sorry to veer off topic here, but I say these things because I think some of your ideas are valid and could really benefit from an adjustment in your presentation of them, and yourself. If I didn't think you had anything worthwhile to say, I wouldn't bother. Terren --- On Wed, 9/3/08, Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [agi] A NewMetaphor for Intelligence - the Computer/Organiser > To: [email protected] > Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 9:42 PM > Terren's request for new metaphors/paradigms for > intelligence threw me > temporarily off course.Why a new one - why not the old one? > The computer. > But the whole computer. > > You see, AI-ers simply don't understand computers, or > understand only half > of them > > What I'm doing here is what I said philosophers do - > outline existing > paradigms and point out how they lack certain essential > dimensions. > > When AI-ers look at a computer, the paradigm that they > impose on it is that > of a Turing machine - a programmed machine, a device for > following programs. > > But that is obviously only the half of it.Computers are > obviously much more > than that - and Turing machines. You just have to look at > them. It's > staring you in the face. There's something they have > that Turing machines > don't. See it? Terren? > > They have - a keyboard. > > And as a matter of scientific, historical fact, computers > are first and > foremost keyboards - i.e.devices for CREATING programs on > keyboards, - and > only then following them. [Remember how AI gets almost > everything about > intelligence back to front?] There is not and never has > been a program that > wasn't first created on a keyboard. Indisputable fact. > Almost everything > that happens in computers happens via the keyboard. > > So what exactly is a keyboard? Well, like all keyboards > whether of > computers, musical instruments or typewriters, it is a > creative instrument. > And what makes it creative is that it is - you could say - > an "organiser." > > A device with certain "organs" (in this case > keys) that are designed to be > creatively organised - arranged in creative, improvised > (rather than > programmed) sequences of action/ association./"organ > play. > > And an extension of the body. Of the organism. All > organisms are > "organisers" - devices for creatively sequencing > actions/ > associations./organs/ nervous systems first and developing > fixed, orderly > sequences/ routines/ "programs" second. > > All organisers are manifestly capable of an infinity of > creative, novel > sequences, both rational and organized, and crazy and > disorganized. The > idea that organisers (including computers) are only meant > to follow > programs - to be straitjacketed in movement and thought - > is obviously > untrue. Touch the keyboard. Which key comes first? > What's the program for > creating any program? And there lies the secret of AGI. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=111637683-c8fa51 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
