Algorithmic information has nothing to do with my argument. I'm talking about time complexity.
There are limits to how fast a computer can run its clock, for example because delta E times Delta T must be greater than hbar, so if you try to make delta T too small you explode. Ben> It's not solved by shielding, because the hypothetical Ben> "computable source whose algorithmic information is too high for Ben> me to grok it" could be within the molecules of the brain, just Ben> where the hypothetical "uncomputable source" is hypothesized to Ben> be by Penrose and Hammeroff and so forth. Ben> You can never do any experiment to distinguish directly between Ben> A = "X is uncomputable" Ben> and Ben> B = "X is a computable but has an algorithmic information far Ben> higher than my brain." Ben> You can distinguish between them indirectly via inference Ben> according to some theory, but, then the extension of theory to Ben> deal with A and B is going to be speculative and unsupported, Ben> etc. Ben> -- Ben G Ben> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Eric Baum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ben> wrote: >> I don't think this is reasonable. For the experiment, we would >> isolate you with various shielding. It is a question of the design >> of an experiment, like any other physics experiment. At some point, >> Occam's Razor tells you that the best theory is a non-computational >> system. >> >> And, I hate to be defending people who make this kind of claim, >> because their claims are wrong-- since what they are claiming to >> have observed the mind do could easily be done by a computer. And >> the kind of stuff I am saying you would use to test it I don't >> believe people could do. >> >> But the point is only that one could perform experiments that would >> test the hypothesis. The claim that such experiments would have to >> be infinitely long to be convincing is not valid, I don't believe. >> >> >> Ben> Eric, According to your argument, there are some cases in which Ben> you could demonstrate that I was producing outputs that could not Ben> be generated by the specific computer that is **my brain** Ben> according to our current understanding of my brain. >> Ben> However, this would not demonstrate that the source is Ben> noncomputational. There are other possible explanations, such as Ben> the explanation that there is some more powerful computer Ben> somewhere generating the outputs, in a way that we don't Ben> currently understand. >> Ben> So the question then becomes how would you distinguish between Ben> the hypothesis of a hidden noncomputational source, and a hidden Ben> more-powerful-computer source? Again, you need to make this Ben> distinction using a finite set of finite-precision Ben> observations.... And so my argument then applies again to this Ben> additional set of observations.... >> Ben> So I don't see that you have really provided a counterexample. Ben> However, I can see the value of formalizing my argument Ben> mathematically so as to avoid the appearance of such loopholes... >> Ben> ben g >> Ben> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Eric Baum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ben> wrote: >> >> >> You have not convinced me that you can do anything a computer >> >> can't do. >> And, using language or math, you never will -- >> >> because any finite set of symbols >> you can utter, could also be >> >> uttered by some computational system. >> -- Ben G >> >> >> >> I have the sense that this argument is not air tight, because I >> can >> imagine a zero-knowledge proof that you can do something a >> computer >> can't do. >> >> >> >> Any finite set of symbols you utter *could*, of course, be >> >> utterable by some computational system, but if they are generated >> >> in response to queries that are not known in advance, it might >> be >> arbitrarily unlikely that they *would* be uttered by any >> particular >> computational system. >> >> >> >> For example, to make this concrete and airtight, I can add a >> time >> element. Say I compute offline the answers to a large >> number of >> problems that, if one were to solve them with a >> computation, >> provably could only be solved by extremely long >> sequential >> computations, each longer than any sequential >> computation that a >> computer that could possibly be built out of >> the matter in your >> brain could compute in an hour, and I present >> you these problems >> and you answer 10000 of them in half an >> hour. At this point, I am >> going, I think, to be pursuaded that >> you are doing something that >> can not be captured by a Turing >> machine. >> >> >> >> Not that I believe, of course, that you can do anything a >> computer >> can't do. I'm just saying, the above argument is not a >> proof that, >> if you could, it could not be demonstrated. >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> >> agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS >> Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify >> Your >> Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; Powered by >> Listbox: >> http://www.listbox.com >> >> >> >> >> Ben> -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director Ben> of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Ben> "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an Ben> invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a Ben> sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the Ben> dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve Ben> equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a Ben> computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Ben> Specialization is for insects." -- Robert Heinlein >> Ben> ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: Ben> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: Ben> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Ben> Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; Powered by Ben> Listbox: http://www.listbox.com <br>Eric,<br><br>According to Ben> your argument, there are some cases in which you could Ben> demonstrate that I was producing outputs that could not be Ben> generated by the specific computer that is **my brain** according Ben> to our current understanding of my brain.<br> <br>However, this Ben> would not demonstrate that the source is noncomputational. Ben> There are other possible explanations, such as the explanation Ben> that there is some more powerful computer somewhere generating Ben> the outputs, in a way that we don't currently Ben> understand. <br> <br>So the question then becomes how would Ben> you distinguish between the hypothesis of a hidden Ben> noncomputational source, and a hidden more-powerful-computer Ben> source? Again, you need to make this distinction using a Ben> finite set of finite-precision observations.... And so my Ben> argument then applies again to this additional set of Ben> observations....<br> <br>So I don't see that you have really Ben> provided a counterexample. However, I can see the value of Ben> formalizing my argument mathematically so as to avoid the Ben> appearance of such loopholes...<br><br>ben g<br><br><div Ben> class="gmail_quote"> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Eric Baum Ben> <span dir="ltr"><<a Ben> href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a>></span> Ben> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px Ben> solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; Ben> padding-left: 1ex;"> <div class="Ih2E3d"><br> >> You have Ben> not convinced me that you can do anything a computer can't Ben> do.<br> >> And, using language or math, you never will -- Ben> because any finite set of symbols<br> >> you can utter, Ben> could also be uttered by some computational system.<br> >> Ben> -- Ben G<br> <br> </div>I have the sense that this argument is Ben> not air tight, because I can<br> imagine a zero-knowledge proof Ben> that you can do something a computer<br> can't do.<br> <br> Ben> Any finite set of symbols you utter *could*, of course, be Ben> utterable by<br> some computational system, but if they are Ben> generated in response to<br> queries that are not known in Ben> advance, it might be arbitrarily unlikely<br> that they *would* Ben> be uttered by any particular computational system.<br> <br> For Ben> example, to make this concrete and airtight, I can add a time Ben> element.<br> Say I compute offline the answers to a large number Ben> of<br> problems that, if one were to solve them with a Ben> computation,<br> provably could only be solved by extremely long Ben> sequential<br> computations, each longer than any sequential Ben> computation<br> that a computer that could<br> possibly be built Ben> out of the matter in your brain could compute in an hour,<br> and Ben> I present you these problems and you answer 10000 of them in Ben> half<br> an hour. At this point, I am going, I think, to be Ben> pursuaded that you<br> are doing something that can not be Ben> captured by a Turing machine.<br> <br> Not that I believe, of Ben> course, that you can do anything a computer<br> can't Ben> do. I'm just saying, the above argument is not a proof Ben> that,<br> if you could, it could not be demonstrated.<br> Ben> <div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br> <br> Ben> -------------------------------------------<br> agi<br> Archives: Ben> <a href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> </a><br> Ben> RSS Feed: <a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ >> </a><br> Ben> Modify Your Subscription: <a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/?&"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/?&</a><br> Ben> Powered by Listbox: <a href="http://www.listbox.com"; Ben> target="_blank">http://www.listbox.com</a><br> Ben> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Ben Ben> Goertzel, PhD<br>CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC<br>Director Ben> of Research, SIAI<br><a Ben> href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a><br><br>"A Ben> human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, Ben> butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, Ben> balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, Ben> take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, Ben> analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a Ben> tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is Ben> for insects." -- Robert Heinlein<br> <br><br> <div Ben> style="padding:0 4px 4px 4px;background-color:#fff;clear:both" Ben> bgcolor="#ffffff"> <hr> >> Ben> <table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%" Ben> style="background-color:#fff" bgcolor="#ffffff"> <tr> <td Ben> padding="4px"> <font color="black" size="1" face="helvetica, Ben> sans-serif;"> <strong>agi</strong> | <a Ben> style="text-decoration:none;color:#669933;border-bottom: 1px Ben> solid #444444" Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now"; title="Go Ben> to archives for agi">Archives</a> <a border="0" Ben> style="text-decoration:none;color:#669933" Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/"; title="RSS Ben> feed for agi"><img border=0 Ben> src="https://www.listbox.com/images/feed-icon-10x10.jpg";></a> | Ben> <a style="text-decoration:none;color:#669933;border-bottom: 1px Ben> solid #444444" href="https://www.listbox.com/member/?&"; Ben> title="">Modify</a> Your Subscription<td valign="top" Ben> align="right"><a style="border-bottom:none;" Ben> href="http://www.listbox.com";> <img Ben> src="https://www.listbox.com/images/listbox-logo-small.jpg"; Ben> title="Powered by Listbox" border="0" /></a></td> >> Ben> </font> </td> </tr> </table> </div> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS >> Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your >> Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; Powered by Listbox: >> http://www.listbox.com >> Ben> -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director Ben> of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ben> "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an Ben> invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a Ben> sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the Ben> dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve Ben> equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a Ben> computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Ben> Specialization is for insects." -- Robert Heinlein Ben> ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: Ben> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: Ben> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Ben> Subscription: Ben> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; Ben> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com <br>It's not Ben> solved by shielding, because the hypothetical "computable Ben> source whose algorithmic information is too high for me to grok Ben> it" could be within the molecules of the brain, just where Ben> the hypothetical "uncomputable source" is hypothesized Ben> to be by Penrose and Hammeroff and so forth.<br> <br>You can Ben> never do any experiment to distinguish directly between<br><br>A Ben> = "X is uncomputable"<br><br>and<br><br>B = "X is Ben> a computable but has an algorithmic information far higher than Ben> my brain."<br> <br>You can distinguish between them Ben> indirectly via inference according to some theory, but, then the Ben> extension of theory to deal with A and B is going to be Ben> speculative and unsupported, etc.<br><br><br><br>-- Ben G<br><br> Ben> <div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Eric Ben> Baum <span dir="ltr"><<a Ben> href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a>></span> Ben> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px Ben> solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; Ben> padding-left: 1ex;"> <br> I don't think this is Ben> reasonable. For the experiment, we would isolate<br> you with Ben> various shielding. It is a question of the design of an<br> Ben> experiment, like any other physics experiment. At some point,<br> Ben> Occam's Razor tells you that the best theory is a Ben> non-computational<br> system.<br> <br> And, I hate to be Ben> defending people who make this kind of claim,<br> because their Ben> claims are wrong-- since what they are claiming to<br> have Ben> observed the mind do could easily be done by a computer.<br> And Ben> the kind of stuff I am saying you would use to test it<br> I Ben> don't believe people could do.<br> <br> But the point is only Ben> that one could perform experiments that would<br> test the Ben> hypothesis. The claim that such experiments would have to<br> be Ben> infinitely long to be convincing is not valid, I don't Ben> believe.<br> <br> <br> <br> Ben> Eric, According to your Ben> argument, there are some cases in which<br> Ben> you could Ben> demonstrate that I was producing outputs that could not<br> Ben> Ben> be generated by the specific computer that is **my Ben> brain**<br> Ben> according to our current understanding of my Ben> brain.<br> <br> Ben> However, this would not demonstrate that Ben> the source is<br> Ben> noncomputational. There are other Ben> possible explanations, such as<br> Ben> the explanation that Ben> there is some more powerful computer<br> Ben> somewhere Ben> generating the outputs, in a way that we don't<br> Ben> Ben> currently understand.<br> <br> Ben> So the question then Ben> becomes how would you distinguish between<br> Ben> the Ben> hypothesis of a hidden noncomputational source, and a hidden<br> Ben> Ben> more-powerful-computer source? Again, you need to Ben> make this<br> Ben> distinction using a finite set of Ben> finite-precision<br> Ben> observations.... And so my Ben> argument then applies again to this<br> Ben> additional set of Ben> observations....<br> <br> Ben> So I don't see that you Ben> have really provided a counterexample.<br> Ben> However, I can Ben> see the value of formalizing my argument<br> Ben> Ben> mathematically so as to avoid the appearance of such Ben> loopholes...<br> <br> Ben> ben g<br> <br> Ben> On Fri, Oct Ben> 24, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Eric Baum <<a Ben> href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a>><br> Ben> Ben> wrote:<br> <br> >> >> You have not convinced Ben> me that you can do anything a computer<br> >> can't Ben> do. >> And, using language or math, you never will Ben> --<br> >> because any finite set of symbols >> you Ben> can utter, could also be<br> >> uttered by some Ben> computational system. >> -- Ben G<br> >><br> Ben> >> I have the sense that this argument is not air tight, Ben> because I can<br> >> imagine a zero-knowledge proof that Ben> you can do something a computer<br> >> can't do.<br> Ben> >><br> >> Any finite set of symbols you utter Ben> *could*, of course, be<br> >> utterable by some Ben> computational system, but if they are generated<br> >> in Ben> response to queries that are not known in advance, it might Ben> be<br> >> arbitrarily unlikely that they *would* be uttered Ben> by any particular<br> >> computational system.<br> Ben> >><br> >> For example, to make this concrete and Ben> airtight, I can add a time<br> >> element. Say I Ben> compute offline the answers to a large number of<br> >> Ben> problems that, if one were to solve them with a computation,<br> Ben> >> provably could only be solved by extremely long Ben> sequential<br> >> computations, each longer than any Ben> sequential computation that a<br> >> computer that could Ben> possibly be built out of the matter in your<br> >> brain Ben> could compute in an hour, and I present you these problems<br> Ben> >> and you answer 10000 of them in half an hour. At this Ben> point, I am<br> >> going, I think, to be pursuaded that you Ben> are doing something that<br> >> can not be captured by a Ben> Turing machine.<br> >><br> >> Not that I believe, of Ben> course, that you can do anything a computer<br> >> Ben> can't do. I'm just saying, the above argument is not a Ben> proof that,<br> >> if you could, it could not be Ben> demonstrated.<br> <div class="Ih2E3d">>><br> >><br> Ben> >> -------------------------------------------<br> >> Ben> agi Archives: <a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now</a> Ben> RSS<br> >> Feed: <a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/</a> Ben> Modify Your<br> >> Subscription: <a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/?&"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/?&</a> Powered Ben> by Listbox:<br> >> <a href="http://www.listbox.com"; Ben> target="_blank">http://www.listbox.com</a><br> >><br> <br> Ben> <br> <br> </div>Ben> -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC Ben> and Biomind LLC Director<br> Ben> of Research, SIAI <a Ben> href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a><br> <br> Ben> Ben> "A human being should be able to change a diaper, Ben> plan an<br> Ben> invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design Ben> a building, write a<br> Ben> sonnet, balance accounts, build a Ben> wall, set a bone, comfort the<br> Ben> dying, take orders, Ben> give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve<br> Ben> equations, Ben> analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a<br> Ben> Ben> computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die Ben> gallantly.<br> Ben> Specialization is for insects." Ben> -- Robert Heinlein<br> <br> <br> <br> Ben> Ben> ------------------------------------------- agi Archives:<br> Ben> Ben> <a href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now</a> Ben> RSS Feed:<br> Ben> <a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/</a> Ben> Modify Your<br> Ben> Subscription:<br> Ben> <a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/?&"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/?&</a><br> Ben> Ben> Powered by Listbox: <a href="http://www.listbox.com"; Ben> target="_blank">http://www.listbox.com</a><br> Ben> Ben> <br>Eric,<br><br>According to your argument, Ben> there are some cases<br> Ben> in which you could demonstrate Ben> that I was producing outputs that<br> Ben> could not be Ben> generated by the specific computer that is **my<br> Ben> Ben> brain** according to our current understanding of my Ben> brain.<br><br> Ben> <br>However, this would not Ben> demonstrate that the source is<br> Ben> Ben> noncomputational.&nbsp; There are other possible Ben> explanations,<br> Ben> such as the explanation that there is Ben> some more powerful computer<br> Ben> somewhere generating the Ben> outputs, in a way that we don&#39;t<br> Ben> currently Ben> understand.&nbsp; <br> <br>So the question then Ben> becomes<br> Ben> how would you distinguish between the Ben> hypothesis of a hidden<br> Ben> noncomputational source, and a Ben> hidden more-powerful-computer<br> Ben> source?&nbsp; Ben> Again, you need to make this distinction using a<br> Ben> Ben> finite set of finite-precision observations....&nbsp; And so Ben> my<br> Ben> argument then applies again to this additional set Ben> of<br> Ben> observations....<br> <br>So I Ben> don&#39;t see that you have really<br> Ben> provided a Ben> counterexample.&nbsp; However, I can see the value of<br> Ben> Ben> formalizing my argument mathematically so as to avoid Ben> the<br> Ben> appearance of such Ben> loopholes...<br><br>ben Ben> g<br><br><div<br> Ben> Ben> class="gmail_quote"> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 7:01 Ben> PM, Eric Baum<br> Ben> <span Ben> dir="ltr">&lt;<a<br> Ben> Ben> href="mailto:<a Ben> href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a>"><a Ben> href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a></a>&gt;</span><br> Ben> Ben> wrote:<br><blockquote Ben> class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px<br> Ben> Ben> solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;<br> Ben> Ben> padding-left: 1ex;"> <div Ben> class="Ih2E3d"><br> &gt;&gt; You Ben> have<br> Ben> not convinced me that you can do anything a Ben> computer can&#39;t<br> Ben> do.<br> &gt;&gt; Ben> And, using language or math, you never will --<br> Ben> Ben> because any finite set of symbols<br> &gt;&gt; you Ben> can utter,<br> Ben> could also be uttered by some Ben> computational system.<br> &gt;&gt;<br> Ben> -- Ben> Ben G<br> <br> </div>I have the sense that this Ben> argument is<br> Ben> not air tight, because I can<br> Ben> imagine a zero-knowledge proof<br> Ben> that you can do Ben> something a computer<br> can&#39;t do.<br> Ben> <br><br> Ben> Any finite set of symbols you utter Ben> *could*, of course, be<br> Ben> utterable by<br> some Ben> computational system, but if they are<br> Ben> generated in Ben> response to<br> queries that are not known in<br> Ben> Ben> advance, it might be arbitrarily unlikely<br> that they Ben> *would*<br> Ben> be uttered by any particular computational Ben> system.<br> <br> For<br> Ben> example, to make Ben> this concrete and airtight, I can add a time<br> Ben> Ben> element.<br> Say I compute offline the answers to a large Ben> number<br> Ben> of<br> problems that, if one were to Ben> solve them with a<br> Ben> computation,<br> provably Ben> could only be solved by extremely long<br> Ben> Ben> sequential<br> computations, each longer than any Ben> sequential<br> Ben> computation<br> that a computer that Ben> could<br> possibly be built<br> Ben> out of the matter Ben> in your brain could compute in an hour,<br> and<br> Ben> Ben> I present you these problems and you answer 10000 of them in<br> Ben> Ben> half<br> an hour. At this point, I am going, I Ben> think, to be<br> Ben> pursuaded that you<br> are doing Ben> something that can not be<br> Ben> captured by a Turing Ben> machine.<br> <br> Not that I believe, of<br> Ben> Ben> course, that you can do anything a computer<br> Ben> can&#39;t<br> Ben> do. I&#39;m just saying, the above Ben> argument is not a proof<br> Ben> that,<br> if you could, Ben> it could not be demonstrated.<br><br> Ben> Ben> <div><div></div><div Ben> class="Wj3C7c"><br> <br><br> Ben> Ben> -------------------------------------------<br> Ben> agi<br> Archives:<br> Ben> <a href="<a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now</a>"<br> Ben> Ben> target="_blank"><a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now</a></a><br><br> Ben> Ben> RSS Feed: <a<br> Ben> href="<a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/</a>"<br> Ben> Ben> target="_blank"><a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/</a></a><br><br> Ben> Ben> Modify Your Subscription: <a<br> Ben> href="<a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/?&amp"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/?&amp</a>;"<br> Ben> Ben> target="_blank"><a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/?&amp"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/?&amp</a>;</a><br><br> Ben> Ben> Powered by Listbox: <a href="<a Ben> href="http://www.listbox.com"; Ben> target="_blank">http://www.listbox.com</a>"<br> Ben> Ben> target="_blank"><a href="http://www.listbox.com"; Ben> target="_blank">http://www.listbox.com</a></a><br><br> Ben> Ben> Ben> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br Ben> clear="all"><br>-- <br>Ben<br> Ben> Ben> Goertzel, PhD<br>CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind Ben> LLC<br>Director<br> Ben> of Research, Ben> SIAI<br><a<br> Ben> href="mailto:<a Ben> href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a>"><a Ben> href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a></a><br><br>&quot;A<br> Ben> Ben> human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an Ben> invasion,<br> Ben> butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a Ben> building, write a sonnet,<br> Ben> balance accounts, build a Ben> wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,<br> Ben> take orders, Ben> give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,<br> Ben> Ben> analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook Ben> a<br> Ben> tasty meal, fight efficiently, die Ben> gallantly. Specialization is<br> Ben> for insects.&quot; Ben> &nbsp;-- Robert Heinlein<br> <br><br> Ben> <div<br> Ben> style="padding:0 4px 4px Ben> 4px;background-color:#fff;clear:both"<br> Ben> Ben> bgcolor="#ffffff"> <hr><br> <br> Ben> Ben> <table border="0" cellspacing="0" Ben> cellpadding="0" width="100%"<br> Ben> Ben> style="background-color:#fff" Ben> bgcolor="#ffffff"> <tr> <td<br> Ben> Ben> padding="4px"> <font color="black" Ben> size="1" face="helvetica,<br> Ben> Ben> sans-serif;"> <strong>agi</strong> | Ben> <a<br> Ben> Ben> style="text-decoration:none;color:#669933;border-bottom: Ben> 1px<br> Ben> solid #444444"<br> Ben> href="<a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now</a>" Ben> title="Go<br> Ben> to archives for Ben> agi">Archives</a> <a border="0"<br> Ben> Ben> style="text-decoration:none;color:#669933"<br> Ben> Ben> href="<a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/</a>" Ben> title="RSS<br> Ben> feed for agi"><img Ben> border=0<br> Ben> src="<a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/images/feed-icon-10x10.jpg"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/images/feed-icon-10x10.jpg</a>"></a> Ben> |<br> Ben> <a Ben> style="text-decoration:none;color:#669933;border-bottom: Ben> 1px<br> Ben> solid #444444"<br> Ben> href="<a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/?&"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/?&</a>"<br> Ben> Ben> title="">Modify</a> Your Ben> Subscription<td valign="top"<br> Ben> Ben> align="right"><a Ben> style="border-bottom:none;"<br> Ben> href="<a Ben> href="http://www.listbox.com"; Ben> target="_blank">http://www.listbox.com</a>"> <img<br> Ben> Ben> src="<a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/images/listbox-logo-small.jpg"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/images/listbox-logo-small.jpg</a>"<br> Ben> Ben> title="Powered by Listbox" border="0" Ben> /></a></td><br> <br> Ben> Ben> </font> </td> </tr> </table> Ben> </div><br> <div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br> <br> Ben> -------------------------------------------<br> agi<br> Archives: Ben> <a href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now</a><br> Ben> RSS Feed: <a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/</a><br> Ben> Modify Your Subscription: <a Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/?&"; Ben> target="_blank">https://www.listbox.com/member/?&</a><br> Ben> Powered by Listbox: <a href="http://www.listbox.com"; Ben> target="_blank">http://www.listbox.com</a><br> Ben> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Ben Ben> Goertzel, PhD<br>CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC<br>Director Ben> of Research, SIAI<br><a Ben> href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a><br><br>"A Ben> human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, Ben> butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, Ben> balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, Ben> take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, Ben> analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a Ben> tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is Ben> for insects." -- Robert Heinlein<br> <br><br> <div Ben> style="padding:0 4px 4px 4px;background-color:#fff;clear:both" Ben> bgcolor="#ffffff"> <hr> Ben> <table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%" Ben> style="background-color:#fff" bgcolor="#ffffff"> <tr> <td Ben> padding="4px"> <font color="black" size="1" face="helvetica, Ben> sans-serif;"> <strong>agi</strong> | <a Ben> style="text-decoration:none;color:#669933;border-bottom: 1px Ben> solid #444444" Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now"; title="Go Ben> to archives for agi">Archives</a> <a border="0" Ben> style="text-decoration:none;color:#669933" Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/"; title="RSS Ben> feed for agi"><img border=0 Ben> src="https://www.listbox.com/images/feed-icon-10x10.jpg";></a> | Ben> <a style="text-decoration:none;color:#669933;border-bottom: 1px Ben> solid #444444" Ben> href="https://www.listbox.com/member/?&"; Ben> title="">Modify</a> Your Subscription<td valign="top" Ben> align="right"><a style="border-bottom:none;" Ben> href="http://www.listbox.com";> <img Ben> src="https://www.listbox.com/images/listbox-logo-small.jpg"; Ben> title="Powered by Listbox" border="0" /></a></td> Ben> </font> </td> </tr> </table> </div> ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
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