Before you can start searching for consciousness, you need to describe precisely what you are looking for.
-- Matt Mahoney, [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: FW: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of > consciousness--correction > To: [email protected] > Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 5:15 PM > Matt, > > With regard to your first point I largely agree with you. > I would, however, > qualify it with the fact that many of us find it hard not > to sympathize with > people or animals, such as a dog, under certain > circumstances when we > directly sense outward manifestations that they are > experiencing terrible > pain, unless we have a sufficient hatred toward them to > compensate for our > natural tendency to feel sympathy for them. Some people > attribute this to > mirror neurons, and the fact that we evolved to be tribal > social animals. > > With regard to the second point, your statement does not > refute my point, > although my point is admittedly based on belief that is far > from certain. > Our understanding of the physical (such as neural) > correlates of conscious > is currently sufficiently limited that it does not yet let > us say much about > the consciousness or lack thereof of the systems you > describe, even if one > assumes they are totally understood in terms of things > other than the > knowledge of the physical correlates of consciousness that > we currently > don't have, but will have within fifty years. > > But from what little we do understand about the neural > correlates of > consciousness, it does not seem that either system you > describe would have > anything approaching a human consciousness, and thus a > human experience of > pain, since they lack the type of computation normally > associated with > reports by humans of conscious experience. > > Ed Porter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 4:45 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: FW: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the > problem of > consciousness--correction > > --- On Mon, 11/17/08, Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >First, it is not clear "people > >are free to decide what makes pain > "real"," at least > >subjectively real. > > I mean that people are free to decide if others feel pain. > For example, a > scientist may decide that a mouse does not feel pain when > it is stuck in the > eye with a needle (the standard way to draw blood) even > though it squirms > just like a human would. It is surprisingly easy to modify > one's ethics to > feel this way, as proven by the Milgram experiments and > Nazi war crime > trials. > > >If we have anything close to the advances in brain > scanning and brain > science > >that Kurzweil predicts 1, we should come to understand > the correlates of > >consciousness quite well > > No. I used examples like autobliss ( > http://www.mattmahoney.net/autobliss.txt ) and the > roundworm c. elegans as > examples of simple systems whose functions are completely > understood, yet > the question of whether such systems experience pain > remains a philosophical > question that cannot be answered by experiment. > > -- Matt Mahoney, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=120640061-aded06 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
