Without offending anyone, I believe that poverty is a great enabler if
one is totally blind. My friends who travel by bus/metro/train are
more assertive/independent while negotiating challenges than those who
travel by car/airplane. I'd be happy if someone could disapprove this
hypotheses. English-speaking blind individuals may be good at
delivering lectures/talking worldly affairs, but non-English blind
individuals are good at living independently.poor blind individual is
more likely to marry a blind girl; the rich blind individual however
goes for a sighted one. Why, cause a poor blind is more confident
that he/she will be able to take on challenges as blind couple.
On 8/7/17, Asudani, Rajesh via Ai
<ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in> wrote:
> Had not thought to write, since it is a very tricky question and there is a
> very fine line of distinction between being concerned and being
> overprotective when it comes to children with disabilities.
> Being one of the five siblings with blindness in my family, I have
> experienced all the methods suggested here for gaining a reasonable degree
> of independence.
>
> Let me clarify I am not a votary of hyper independence.
> As I had said about six years back in retina India controversy,
An escort is
> a necessity for a totally blind person, if it is available, affordable and
> there are no privacy concerns.
> It however does not mean a blind person cannot and should not travel alone
> at all.
>
> Now, the big question is who that escort should be.
> If friends, then they must be reliable friends.
> Not only that, It should be brought home to parents that the friends are
> reliable.
> Besides, if hired escort is available, why not, since we can have better
> control over a person we are paying.
>
> Escorting from a distance may also be tried, just to keep out of
harm's way,
> as I am fond of saying, it does not take even half an accident to......
>
>
> Rajesh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ai [mailto:ai-boun...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in] On Behalf Of
> Shireen Irani via Ai
> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2017 1:57 PM
> To: Share, empower &Enrich
> Cc: Shireen Irani
> Subject: Re: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a regressive
> view about the capabilities of the disabled
>
> hi rahul,
>
> since you are sort of trying to come to terms with adopting not very
> comfortable means as a last resort, I'm gonna suggest 1 last 1, and
> then you could choose the safer option from the 2.
>
> what if a few of us, perhaps your friends, and a couple of seniors
> from the community, meet with your parent/s, and sit for a couple of
> hours trying to reason things out with them? I know it might sound a
> bit intrusive, but again, in my experience a calm conversation with
> outsiders is sometimes more effective for changing minds, because 1
> gets used to not taking home members too seriously with issues related
> to change. I think you mentioned that the parent in question lives in
> a different city? in which case we could either wait till they're all
> in the same city at some point, or gather a team from the city where
> he resides.
>
> do think about it, it may not be as bad as what you might instantly
> imagine. and you may not have much to loos, even if there's no
> success. but I'm reasonably confident that there may be some hope for
> change.
>
> again, this is just 1 of many suggestions, without meaning to be intrusive.
>
> best,
>
> Shireen.
>
>
> On 8/7/17, George Abraham via Ai <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in>
> wrote:
>> One more small point. Unless one is financial independent can one take
>> such
>> a stand with the parents. This is true for even non disabled children.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ai [mailto:ai-boun...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in] On Behalf Of
>> Kanchan Pamnani via Ai
>> Sent: 05 August 2017 17:16
>> To: 'Share, empower &Enrich'
>> Cc: Kanchan Pamnani
>> Subject: Re: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a regressive
>> view about the capabilities of the disabled
>>
>> Rahul,
>> You cannot execute and then inform if you want to travel.
>> Plan well without informing your parents. Only inform them when you are
>> absolutely sure.
>> Your words should be that "I am going to x place with ABC on Date by
>> flight
>> or train". Don't ask them just matter of fact tell them. Don't ask for
>> money. This trip you have to do with your saved finances.
>> It is best to give them full details when you tell them. Make a small
>> itenary - Date of travel,how, from where to where.
>> Where are you staying and the phone no of the place with address. This
>> may
>> sound silly in the days of mobile when they can reach you directly.
>> However
>> it helps them calm down because there will be many times you will not
>> pick
>> up your mobile.
>> I had a loving father but a very concerned one. So I dealt with him
>> properly. I gave him the full information and had answers for everything
>> he
>> may have asked me. My dad was a lawyer and you know and I knew how many
>> questions I had to answer. However I went for everything I wanted
>> to-including holidays with friends. It helps if your folks know your
>> friends. I always invited my friends home so there was a feeling of
>> trust.
>> Also I must tell you that until my Dad was alive I got a call every night
>> even when I went to Delhi for one night. He did not care what I was doing
>> so
>> I could have been in my hotel room or at a bar. He just wanted to hear my
>> voice at 10pm before he fell asleep. I used to get irritated because I
>> would
>> think what if something happened to me at 11pm and he could not take care
>> of
>> me. Once I was in Connought Place with 2 friends both sighted. Both my
>> age.
>> Arun was married and in fact a grandfather. He too got a call from his
>> father while we were having dinner. Ayesha is a Senior Journalist and
>> lives
>> in Delhi. She too got a call from her mother. So calm down parents will
>> be
>> parents.
>> Don't do something stupid because then they will hold it over your head
>> forever.
>> A lot of people on this group drink extensively. Its not really a nice
>> scene
>> when you have a drunk blind person who needs help. Word does reach
>> parents.
>>
>> The last thing I would suggest is try to be as independent as possible.
>> Handle your packing personally and don't ask for help when you are
>> dealing
>> with your personal things.
>> Assert yourself but do it maturely.
>> Kanchan
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ai [mailto:ai-boun...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in] On Behalf Of
>> Rahul Bajaj via Ai
>> Sent: 05 August 2017 16:34
>> To: Share, empower &Enrich
>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj
>> Subject: Re: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a regressive
>> view about the capabilities of the disabled
>>
>> Thanks again.
>> Geetha, I agree with you that absolute independence is undesirable, but
>> what
>> we are talking here about is reasonable independence. When offered the
>> possibility of travelling with a friend, the parent says that friends are
>> likely to abandon you in case any problem arises. Only family members or
>> servants can be trusted.
>> When asked to seek advice and support from orgs like Enable India, the
>> parent says that those support systems exist for those who cannot afford
>> personal servants. They are of no use to someone who can afford personal
>> helpers.
>>
>> The approach outlined by Shireen, though difficult, then remains the only
>> solution. Shireen, if one wants to travel alone/with a friend, and one is
>> living with one parent who will inform the unreasonable parent about
>> everything, how can one adopt the strategy of executing and then
>> informing?
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Rahul
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 12:53 PM, Shireen Irani via Ai
>> <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in> wrote:
>>>
>>> hi Rahul,
>>>
>>> most of what i wish to say has been said already, but I'd like to
>>> reiterate a couple of things that i think are imperative, regardless
>>> of the temporary discomfort they may cause in the relationship.
>>>
>>> as an adult, whether disabled or not, 1 needs to put one's foot down,
>>> and have the free will to decide one's own actions with total
>>> responsibility for them. parents often find that difficult to accept,
>>> partly for control, and partly because of their fear of being of no
>>> need to the child any more. so if there's no room for a calm
>>> conversation, one can make one's decisions and break it to them
>>> immediately before, or after you start executing it. even the language
>>> you use needs to be assertive and firm, reassuring them that you do
>>> love and respect them, but these are a few things that you will not
>>> allow them to control, because they are now yours to take charge of.
>>> this is also when you ask them: what they think you will do, once
>>> they're not around any more to protect you from the big bad world. we
>>> know of countless stories of parents who threaten to harm themselves
>>> in cases of their children marrying against the parents wishes, but
>>> after a few months it all defuses and the family is 1 again. so
>>> particularly with emotional blackmail, I know it sounds unpleasant,
>>> but it is best to assert, that you will not be deterred by any such
>>> threats.
>>> the way to balance things out could be to show them that you'd love
>>> their intervention in certain areas, but not in a few others.
>>>
>>> also, it really does help even if in tiny ways, for them to see other
>>> blind people moving around more independently. so wherever possible,
>>> do invite a friend over, introduce them to your parents, and then
>>> perhaps spontaneously decide to venture out on your own, the 2 of you,
>>> without opportunity for any further discussion on the matter.
>>> finally, I think financial independence, and your ability to manage
>>> your own finances without their help, and also contributing towards
>>> the running of the house, usually goes a long way as a sign of your
>>> independent adulthood. if you can politely deny any1 else's help/
>>> control in financial matters, and then prove your efficiency with wise
>>> money management, then it becomes relatively easier to assert your
>>> independence in other areas.
>>> of course your own confidence and ability is paramount before you take
>>> such steps.
>>>
>>> what I'd emphasise the most in all this is, do not give in to
>>> emotional blackmail!! just do not.
>>> prepare yourself for some temporary strain, and look forward to a
>>> healthier and more meaningful future with your family.
>>>
>>> best,
>>>
>>> Shireen.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 8/5/17, Rahul Bajaj via Ai <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in>
>> wrote:
>>>> Thanks, Alok. I agree that the anxiety and fear of the parent here is
>>>> divorced from the actual capabilities of the disabled person.
>>>> Such blind resistance to accepting the proposition that the blind
>>>> person has to be given space to grow and make their own mistakes is
>>>> what creates an impasse.
>>>> If a blind adult is told that they will always need an escort, but
>>>> the only difference will be that the escort will be their wife
>>>> instead of their mother in future, that reflects the parent's
>>>> absolute failure to understand the other person's perspective.
>>>>
>>>> I think the suggestions that you have offered are very helpful.
>>>> However, they nonetheless presuppose that the parent is willing to
>>>> engage in a calm conversation with a semi open mind. The fundamental
>>>> problem here is that that also is not true most of the time.
>>>> The disabled person is told that the parent will start stepping back
>>>> when the disabled person acquires the requisite independence. When
>>>> asked to outline the criteria based on which the parent will be able
>>>> to say that the child has reached that level, the parent becomes
>>>> confrontational and states that the disabled person has not seen the
>>>> darker side of the world yet.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Rahul
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/08/2017, Alok Kaushik <alok.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Rahul,
>>>>> What you have mentioned suggests that the fundamental issue is not
>>>>> about the capabilities of the visually impaired person and parent's
>>>>> comfort level with it but a limitation that the parent himself /
>>>>> herself is facing in terms of handling the situation if something
>>>>> goes wrong. He / she has a fixed idea that he / she is responsible
>>>>> for the VI person, and hence has to take decisions.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a more difficult scenario to deal with because it is not
>>>>> about VI person's but their notions of their own limitations and
>>>>> responsibilities.
>>>>> In such a case while demonstrating your capabilities is important,
>>>>> it is equally important to relieve them of the burden of that
>>>>> sense of responsibility and limitation. This would especially be
>>>>> relevant in case of single parents, and also in scenarios in
>>>>> which parents consider themselves to be socially answerable if
>>>>> anything
>> goes wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be important to make them understand that their support
>>>>> would not be everlasting, and their help is needed to make
>>>>> oneself independent, if they really want him / her to live well.
>>>>> They can better help adapt, practice, and achieve a high level of
>>>>> comfort while they can still support . One saying that I often use
>>>>> to quote is "You give your son a fish, he eats today. You teach
>>>>> him how to fish, he eats every day.".
>>>>>
>>>>> I have also seen some parents say that you can do whatever you want
>>>>> after us but not while we are still around. This again reflects
>>>>> that the focus of their thinking is not really the limitations of
>>>>> the visually impaired person but their own limitations.
>>>>>
>>>>> One may have to make the parents realize they have a support
>>>>> system to handle any situation. And also, it needs to come out in
>>>>> one's communication that he / she is now prepared to take on the
>>>>> responsibilities of his / her actions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to reiterate that patience is still the key. If
>>>>> one really intends to be independent, it would eventually happen.
>>>>> In fact at some point being independent would be a requirement
>>>>> whether one wants to or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> Alok
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Rahul Bajaj [mailto:rahul.bajaj10...@gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 9:16 PM
>>>>> To: Share, empower &Enrich
>>>>> Cc: Alok Kaushik
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a
>>>>> regressive view about the capabilities of the disabled
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you, everyone. Your responses are very insightful and
>> informative.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alok, I agree with you that one has to strive to avoid either of
>>>>> those extremes. However, all these suggestions operate on the
>>>>> premise that the parent in question is reasonable and willing to
>>>>> change their views based on changing circumstances. I am afraid that
>>>>> is not always the case. Some parents cannot be reasoned with and
>>>>> offer you a choice between not doing something and doing it as per
>>>>> their own unreasonable terms. What choice is one left with in such
>>>>> cases?
>>>>> Further, while the incremental approach works best, that cannot
>>>>> address a parent's unfounded fear that something horrible will happen.
>>>>> Finally, if a parent is blackmailing a child into not doing
>>>>> something or doing it in a very different way from what the child
>>>>> wants without even articulating genuine safety concerns that make
>>>>> them wary, what should one do?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Rahul
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 4, 2017, at 2:36 PM, Alok Kaushik via Ai
>>>>>> <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Rahul,
>>>>>> You have brought up a very relevant subject. Although I always
>>>>>> had a very understanding family, I also had to experience a
>>>>>> phase in which the family members had to be brought to a
>>>>>> certain comfort level. I never faced any restrictions but
>>>>>> additional comfort level had to be developed, and I can easily
>>>>>> observe the change in level of comfort and confidence they now
>>>>>> have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Besides that I have also seen several cases around me, in which
>>>>>> similar issues as mentioned by you were present. Here are my
>>>>>> observations and thoughts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not think that any organization or friend will be able to
>>>>>> make a decisive impact on the thinking of parents / family
>>>>>> members just by telling them about some of the other people who
>>>>>> have been able to do much more. It largely depends on how much
>>>>>> drive the visually impaired person himself / herself has to become
>>>>>> independent, and how effectively that is expressed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the main reasons of the parents is the safety concern. One
>>>>>> still needs to take a decision to go ahead and do things but
>>>>>> taking some measures could help understand the parents that he /
>>>>>> she is not reckless about the safety. For example, one can share
>>>>>> the taxi number while travelling outside at home, it communicates
>>>>>> the same message, while being an actual safety measure. Letting the
>>>>>> family members know when to expect you back home realistically
>>>>>> would provide them extra comfort. These actions are simply related
>>>>>> to information sharing and do not necessarily restricts oneself.
>>>>>> This goes a long way in developing a comfort level without
>>>>>> creating any friction in the relationship.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Besides moving outdoors, if there are other things that one is
>>>>>> looking to do but is facing restrictive approach, comfort level can
>>>>>> best be created by generating opportunities to demonstrate that one
>>>>>> would be happy doing such a task and can do it. Communicating
>>>>>> that he / she would definitely ask for help if needed is also
>>>>>> very effective. There is no better conviction then actually seeing
>>>>>> a person doing something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A few things that we need to keep in mind is that we ourselves
>>>>>> need to be patient while persisting with the effort to demonstrate
>>>>>> and develop and confidence in others. It will take some time
>>>>>> and repeated observations by others before their scepticism could
>>>>>> change to conviction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is possible that one may have to be more assertive at times,
>>>>>> but it would be good to balance it out rather quickly to avoid any
>>>>>> negative effect on the relationship. Underlying feeling behind the
>>>>>> assertiveness needs to be that of confidence and not disregard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course there would be two extremes, one in which a person
>>>>>> chooses to enjoy the convenience that a protective environment
>>>>>> offers, which comes back and bites hard once that supportive
>>>>>> environment collapses or dents, or in other in which a person
>>>>>> becomes a rebel, gains the independence and the relationships
>>>>>> languishes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My thoughts are to bring about a change while sustaining good
>>>>>> relationships.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> Alok
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Ai [mailto:ai-boun...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj via Ai
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 1:12 PM
>>>>>> To: ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>>>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj
>>>>>> Subject: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a
>>>>>> regressive view about the capabilities of the disabled
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope this message finds you well.
>>>>>> At the outset, let me clarify that this question may or may not
>>>>>> have anything to do with my own personal experiences, so I'd
>>>>>> appreciate it if the aim of the conversation could be to understand
>>>>>> this phenomenon in general terms as opposed to focusing too much on
>>>>>> my
>> own situation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While a lot of us focus on the importance of sensitizing various
>>>>>> stakeholders, such as employers, academic institutions and others
>>>>>> about the capabilities of the disabled, few focus on the
>>>>>> discrimination that the disabled face in their own homes due to the
>>>>>> view that their own family has about their capabilities or
>>>>>> potential.
>>>>>> More specifically, if one has a parent who is unwilling to learn
>>>>>> from the experiences of other blind people and give their disabled
>>>>>> child the freedom that we all deserve, to what extent should one
>>>>>> follow what such a parent says?
>>>>>> Further, while safety is doubtless important, if the disabled
>>>>>> person has the requisite maturity to ascertain if they will be safe
>>>>>> in a given environment, should they act as per their own assessment
>>>>>> or follow what their parent is saying, in the fear of alienating
>>>>>> them?
>>>>>> I think there are many emotional forces at play in a family setting
>>>>>> that may not be involved in other settings. For instance, one often
>>>>>> hears of parents emotionally blackmailing their children into
>>>>>> acting the way they want without recognizing that this may not be
>>>>>> in the child's best interest.
>>>>>> Finally, what makes the situation worse is the fact that the
>>>>>> external world [friends and wellwishers] is also often apprehensive
>>>>>> to interfere in these matters on behalf of the disabled person on
>>>>>> the ground that this is an internal family matter, so that makes it
>>>>>> significantly harder for the disabled person to fully assert
>>>>>> himself/herself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If any of you have dealt with the above, I'd be curious to know
>>>>>> what you think about these issues.
>>>>>> I am mindful of the fact that not many people would be open to
>>>>>> discussing this on a public forum, so please feel free to mail me
>>>>>> off-list about this. Further, not many may see this as a problem,
>>>>>> given how accustomed they are to succumbing to their parents'
>>>>>> wishes, no matter how uninformed and inappropriate those wishes may
>> be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Rahul
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