Without offending anyone, I believe that poverty is a great enabler if one is totally blind. My friends who travel by bus/metro/train are more assertive/independent while negotiating challenges than those who travel by car/airplane. I'd be happy if someone could disapprove this hypotheses. English-speaking blind individuals may be good at delivering lectures/talking worldly affairs, but non-English blind individuals are good at living independently.poor blind individual is more likely to marry a blind girl; the rich blind individual however goes for a sighted one. Why, cause a poor blind is more confident that he/she will be able to take on challenges as blind couple.
On 8/7/17, Asudani, Rajesh via Ai <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in> wrote: > Had not thought to write, since it is a very tricky question and there is a > very fine line of distinction between being concerned and being > overprotective when it comes to children with disabilities. > Being one of the five siblings with blindness in my family, I have > experienced all the methods suggested here for gaining a reasonable degree > of independence. > > Let me clarify I am not a votary of hyper independence. > As I had said about six years back in retina India controversy, An escort is > a necessity for a totally blind person, if it is available, affordable and > there are no privacy concerns. > It however does not mean a blind person cannot and should not travel alone > at all. > > Now, the big question is who that escort should be. > If friends, then they must be reliable friends. > Not only that, It should be brought home to parents that the friends are > reliable. > Besides, if hired escort is available, why not, since we can have better > control over a person we are paying. > > Escorting from a distance may also be tried, just to keep out of harm's way, > as I am fond of saying, it does not take even half an accident to...... > > > Rajesh > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ai [mailto:ai-boun...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in] On Behalf Of > Shireen Irani via Ai > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2017 1:57 PM > To: Share, empower &Enrich > Cc: Shireen Irani > Subject: Re: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a regressive > view about the capabilities of the disabled > > hi rahul, > > since you are sort of trying to come to terms with adopting not very > comfortable means as a last resort, I'm gonna suggest 1 last 1, and > then you could choose the safer option from the 2. > > what if a few of us, perhaps your friends, and a couple of seniors > from the community, meet with your parent/s, and sit for a couple of > hours trying to reason things out with them? I know it might sound a > bit intrusive, but again, in my experience a calm conversation with > outsiders is sometimes more effective for changing minds, because 1 > gets used to not taking home members too seriously with issues related > to change. I think you mentioned that the parent in question lives in > a different city? in which case we could either wait till they're all > in the same city at some point, or gather a team from the city where > he resides. > > do think about it, it may not be as bad as what you might instantly > imagine. and you may not have much to loos, even if there's no > success. but I'm reasonably confident that there may be some hope for > change. > > again, this is just 1 of many suggestions, without meaning to be intrusive. > > best, > > Shireen. > > > On 8/7/17, George Abraham via Ai <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in> > wrote: >> One more small point. Unless one is financial independent can one take >> such >> a stand with the parents. This is true for even non disabled children. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ai [mailto:ai-boun...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in] On Behalf Of >> Kanchan Pamnani via Ai >> Sent: 05 August 2017 17:16 >> To: 'Share, empower &Enrich' >> Cc: Kanchan Pamnani >> Subject: Re: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a regressive >> view about the capabilities of the disabled >> >> Rahul, >> You cannot execute and then inform if you want to travel. >> Plan well without informing your parents. Only inform them when you are >> absolutely sure. >> Your words should be that "I am going to x place with ABC on Date by >> flight >> or train". Don't ask them just matter of fact tell them. Don't ask for >> money. This trip you have to do with your saved finances. >> It is best to give them full details when you tell them. Make a small >> itenary - Date of travel,how, from where to where. >> Where are you staying and the phone no of the place with address. This >> may >> sound silly in the days of mobile when they can reach you directly. >> However >> it helps them calm down because there will be many times you will not >> pick >> up your mobile. >> I had a loving father but a very concerned one. So I dealt with him >> properly. I gave him the full information and had answers for everything >> he >> may have asked me. My dad was a lawyer and you know and I knew how many >> questions I had to answer. However I went for everything I wanted >> to-including holidays with friends. It helps if your folks know your >> friends. I always invited my friends home so there was a feeling of >> trust. >> Also I must tell you that until my Dad was alive I got a call every night >> even when I went to Delhi for one night. He did not care what I was doing >> so >> I could have been in my hotel room or at a bar. He just wanted to hear my >> voice at 10pm before he fell asleep. I used to get irritated because I >> would >> think what if something happened to me at 11pm and he could not take care >> of >> me. Once I was in Connought Place with 2 friends both sighted. Both my >> age. >> Arun was married and in fact a grandfather. He too got a call from his >> father while we were having dinner. Ayesha is a Senior Journalist and >> lives >> in Delhi. She too got a call from her mother. So calm down parents will >> be >> parents. >> Don't do something stupid because then they will hold it over your head >> forever. >> A lot of people on this group drink extensively. Its not really a nice >> scene >> when you have a drunk blind person who needs help. Word does reach >> parents. >> >> The last thing I would suggest is try to be as independent as possible. >> Handle your packing personally and don't ask for help when you are >> dealing >> with your personal things. >> Assert yourself but do it maturely. >> Kanchan >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ai [mailto:ai-boun...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in] On Behalf Of >> Rahul Bajaj via Ai >> Sent: 05 August 2017 16:34 >> To: Share, empower &Enrich >> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >> Subject: Re: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a regressive >> view about the capabilities of the disabled >> >> Thanks again. >> Geetha, I agree with you that absolute independence is undesirable, but >> what >> we are talking here about is reasonable independence. When offered the >> possibility of travelling with a friend, the parent says that friends are >> likely to abandon you in case any problem arises. Only family members or >> servants can be trusted. >> When asked to seek advice and support from orgs like Enable India, the >> parent says that those support systems exist for those who cannot afford >> personal servants. They are of no use to someone who can afford personal >> helpers. >> >> The approach outlined by Shireen, though difficult, then remains the only >> solution. Shireen, if one wants to travel alone/with a friend, and one is >> living with one parent who will inform the unreasonable parent about >> everything, how can one adopt the strategy of executing and then >> informing? >> >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 12:53 PM, Shireen Irani via Ai >> <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in> wrote: >>> >>> hi Rahul, >>> >>> most of what i wish to say has been said already, but I'd like to >>> reiterate a couple of things that i think are imperative, regardless >>> of the temporary discomfort they may cause in the relationship. >>> >>> as an adult, whether disabled or not, 1 needs to put one's foot down, >>> and have the free will to decide one's own actions with total >>> responsibility for them. parents often find that difficult to accept, >>> partly for control, and partly because of their fear of being of no >>> need to the child any more. so if there's no room for a calm >>> conversation, one can make one's decisions and break it to them >>> immediately before, or after you start executing it. even the language >>> you use needs to be assertive and firm, reassuring them that you do >>> love and respect them, but these are a few things that you will not >>> allow them to control, because they are now yours to take charge of. >>> this is also when you ask them: what they think you will do, once >>> they're not around any more to protect you from the big bad world. we >>> know of countless stories of parents who threaten to harm themselves >>> in cases of their children marrying against the parents wishes, but >>> after a few months it all defuses and the family is 1 again. so >>> particularly with emotional blackmail, I know it sounds unpleasant, >>> but it is best to assert, that you will not be deterred by any such >>> threats. >>> the way to balance things out could be to show them that you'd love >>> their intervention in certain areas, but not in a few others. >>> >>> also, it really does help even if in tiny ways, for them to see other >>> blind people moving around more independently. so wherever possible, >>> do invite a friend over, introduce them to your parents, and then >>> perhaps spontaneously decide to venture out on your own, the 2 of you, >>> without opportunity for any further discussion on the matter. >>> finally, I think financial independence, and your ability to manage >>> your own finances without their help, and also contributing towards >>> the running of the house, usually goes a long way as a sign of your >>> independent adulthood. if you can politely deny any1 else's help/ >>> control in financial matters, and then prove your efficiency with wise >>> money management, then it becomes relatively easier to assert your >>> independence in other areas. >>> of course your own confidence and ability is paramount before you take >>> such steps. >>> >>> what I'd emphasise the most in all this is, do not give in to >>> emotional blackmail!! just do not. >>> prepare yourself for some temporary strain, and look forward to a >>> healthier and more meaningful future with your family. >>> >>> best, >>> >>> Shireen. >>> >>> >>>> On 8/5/17, Rahul Bajaj via Ai <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in> >> wrote: >>>> Thanks, Alok. I agree that the anxiety and fear of the parent here is >>>> divorced from the actual capabilities of the disabled person. >>>> Such blind resistance to accepting the proposition that the blind >>>> person has to be given space to grow and make their own mistakes is >>>> what creates an impasse. >>>> If a blind adult is told that they will always need an escort, but >>>> the only difference will be that the escort will be their wife >>>> instead of their mother in future, that reflects the parent's >>>> absolute failure to understand the other person's perspective. >>>> >>>> I think the suggestions that you have offered are very helpful. >>>> However, they nonetheless presuppose that the parent is willing to >>>> engage in a calm conversation with a semi open mind. The fundamental >>>> problem here is that that also is not true most of the time. >>>> The disabled person is told that the parent will start stepping back >>>> when the disabled person acquires the requisite independence. When >>>> asked to outline the criteria based on which the parent will be able >>>> to say that the child has reached that level, the parent becomes >>>> confrontational and states that the disabled person has not seen the >>>> darker side of the world yet. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>>> On 05/08/2017, Alok Kaushik <alok.li...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Hi Rahul, >>>>> What you have mentioned suggests that the fundamental issue is not >>>>> about the capabilities of the visually impaired person and parent's >>>>> comfort level with it but a limitation that the parent himself / >>>>> herself is facing in terms of handling the situation if something >>>>> goes wrong. He / she has a fixed idea that he / she is responsible >>>>> for the VI person, and hence has to take decisions. >>>>> >>>>> This is a more difficult scenario to deal with because it is not >>>>> about VI person's but their notions of their own limitations and >>>>> responsibilities. >>>>> In such a case while demonstrating your capabilities is important, >>>>> it is equally important to relieve them of the burden of that >>>>> sense of responsibility and limitation. This would especially be >>>>> relevant in case of single parents, and also in scenarios in >>>>> which parents consider themselves to be socially answerable if >>>>> anything >> goes wrong. >>>>> >>>>> It would be important to make them understand that their support >>>>> would not be everlasting, and their help is needed to make >>>>> oneself independent, if they really want him / her to live well. >>>>> They can better help adapt, practice, and achieve a high level of >>>>> comfort while they can still support . One saying that I often use >>>>> to quote is "You give your son a fish, he eats today. You teach >>>>> him how to fish, he eats every day.". >>>>> >>>>> I have also seen some parents say that you can do whatever you want >>>>> after us but not while we are still around. This again reflects >>>>> that the focus of their thinking is not really the limitations of >>>>> the visually impaired person but their own limitations. >>>>> >>>>> One may have to make the parents realize they have a support >>>>> system to handle any situation. And also, it needs to come out in >>>>> one's communication that he / she is now prepared to take on the >>>>> responsibilities of his / her actions. >>>>> >>>>> I would like to reiterate that patience is still the key. If >>>>> one really intends to be independent, it would eventually happen. >>>>> In fact at some point being independent would be a requirement >>>>> whether one wants to or not. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> Alok >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Rahul Bajaj [mailto:rahul.bajaj10...@gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 9:16 PM >>>>> To: Share, empower &Enrich >>>>> Cc: Alok Kaushik >>>>> Subject: Re: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a >>>>> regressive view about the capabilities of the disabled >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, everyone. Your responses are very insightful and >> informative. >>>>> >>>>> Alok, I agree with you that one has to strive to avoid either of >>>>> those extremes. However, all these suggestions operate on the >>>>> premise that the parent in question is reasonable and willing to >>>>> change their views based on changing circumstances. I am afraid that >>>>> is not always the case. Some parents cannot be reasoned with and >>>>> offer you a choice between not doing something and doing it as per >>>>> their own unreasonable terms. What choice is one left with in such >>>>> cases? >>>>> Further, while the incremental approach works best, that cannot >>>>> address a parent's unfounded fear that something horrible will happen. >>>>> Finally, if a parent is blackmailing a child into not doing >>>>> something or doing it in a very different way from what the child >>>>> wants without even articulating genuine safety concerns that make >>>>> them wary, what should one do? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 4, 2017, at 2:36 PM, Alok Kaushik via Ai >>>>>> <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Rahul, >>>>>> You have brought up a very relevant subject. Although I always >>>>>> had a very understanding family, I also had to experience a >>>>>> phase in which the family members had to be brought to a >>>>>> certain comfort level. I never faced any restrictions but >>>>>> additional comfort level had to be developed, and I can easily >>>>>> observe the change in level of comfort and confidence they now >>>>>> have. >>>>>> >>>>>> Besides that I have also seen several cases around me, in which >>>>>> similar issues as mentioned by you were present. Here are my >>>>>> observations and thoughts. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do not think that any organization or friend will be able to >>>>>> make a decisive impact on the thinking of parents / family >>>>>> members just by telling them about some of the other people who >>>>>> have been able to do much more. It largely depends on how much >>>>>> drive the visually impaired person himself / herself has to become >>>>>> independent, and how effectively that is expressed. >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the main reasons of the parents is the safety concern. One >>>>>> still needs to take a decision to go ahead and do things but >>>>>> taking some measures could help understand the parents that he / >>>>>> she is not reckless about the safety. For example, one can share >>>>>> the taxi number while travelling outside at home, it communicates >>>>>> the same message, while being an actual safety measure. Letting the >>>>>> family members know when to expect you back home realistically >>>>>> would provide them extra comfort. These actions are simply related >>>>>> to information sharing and do not necessarily restricts oneself. >>>>>> This goes a long way in developing a comfort level without >>>>>> creating any friction in the relationship. >>>>>> >>>>>> Besides moving outdoors, if there are other things that one is >>>>>> looking to do but is facing restrictive approach, comfort level can >>>>>> best be created by generating opportunities to demonstrate that one >>>>>> would be happy doing such a task and can do it. Communicating >>>>>> that he / she would definitely ask for help if needed is also >>>>>> very effective. There is no better conviction then actually seeing >>>>>> a person doing something. >>>>>> >>>>>> A few things that we need to keep in mind is that we ourselves >>>>>> need to be patient while persisting with the effort to demonstrate >>>>>> and develop and confidence in others. It will take some time >>>>>> and repeated observations by others before their scepticism could >>>>>> change to conviction. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is possible that one may have to be more assertive at times, >>>>>> but it would be good to balance it out rather quickly to avoid any >>>>>> negative effect on the relationship. Underlying feeling behind the >>>>>> assertiveness needs to be that of confidence and not disregard. >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course there would be two extremes, one in which a person >>>>>> chooses to enjoy the convenience that a protective environment >>>>>> offers, which comes back and bites hard once that supportive >>>>>> environment collapses or dents, or in other in which a person >>>>>> becomes a rebel, gains the independence and the relationships >>>>>> languishes. >>>>>> >>>>>> My thoughts are to bring about a change while sustaining good >>>>>> relationships. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> Alok >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Ai [mailto:ai-boun...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj via Ai >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 1:12 PM >>>>>> To: ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in >>>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj >>>>>> Subject: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a >>>>>> regressive view about the capabilities of the disabled >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope this message finds you well. >>>>>> At the outset, let me clarify that this question may or may not >>>>>> have anything to do with my own personal experiences, so I'd >>>>>> appreciate it if the aim of the conversation could be to understand >>>>>> this phenomenon in general terms as opposed to focusing too much on >>>>>> my >> own situation. >>>>>> >>>>>> While a lot of us focus on the importance of sensitizing various >>>>>> stakeholders, such as employers, academic institutions and others >>>>>> about the capabilities of the disabled, few focus on the >>>>>> discrimination that the disabled face in their own homes due to the >>>>>> view that their own family has about their capabilities or >>>>>> potential. >>>>>> More specifically, if one has a parent who is unwilling to learn >>>>>> from the experiences of other blind people and give their disabled >>>>>> child the freedom that we all deserve, to what extent should one >>>>>> follow what such a parent says? >>>>>> Further, while safety is doubtless important, if the disabled >>>>>> person has the requisite maturity to ascertain if they will be safe >>>>>> in a given environment, should they act as per their own assessment >>>>>> or follow what their parent is saying, in the fear of alienating >>>>>> them? >>>>>> I think there are many emotional forces at play in a family setting >>>>>> that may not be involved in other settings. For instance, one often >>>>>> hears of parents emotionally blackmailing their children into >>>>>> acting the way they want without recognizing that this may not be >>>>>> in the child's best interest. >>>>>> Finally, what makes the situation worse is the fact that the >>>>>> external world [friends and wellwishers] is also often apprehensive >>>>>> to interfere in these matters on behalf of the disabled person on >>>>>> the ground that this is an internal family matter, so that makes it >>>>>> significantly harder for the disabled person to fully assert >>>>>> himself/herself. >>>>>> >>>>>> If any of you have dealt with the above, I'd be curious to know >>>>>> what you think about these issues. >>>>>> I am mindful of the fact that not many people would be open to >>>>>> discussing this on a public forum, so please feel free to mail me >>>>>> off-list about this. Further, not many may see this as a problem, >>>>>> given how accustomed they are to succumbing to their parents' >>>>>> wishes, no matter how uninformed and inappropriate those wishes may >> be. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Rahul >>>>>> Disclaimer: >>>>>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the >>>>>> thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates >>>>>> itself to its veracity; >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on >>>>>> the mails sent through this mailing list.. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To check if the post reached the list or to search for old posting, >>>>>> reach: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in/mai >>>>>> lli st.html _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ai mailing list >>>>>> Ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in >>>>>> http://accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in/mailman/listinfo/ai >>>>>> >>>>>> Disclaimer: >>>>>> 1. 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To check if the post reached the list or to search for old posting, reach: https://www.mail-archive.com/ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in/maillist.html _______________________________________________ Ai mailing list Ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in http://accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in/mailman/listinfo/ai