Re: [alto] Adopting two I-Ds as WG documents

[Lars Eggert]

Hi, Greg,

On 2009-4-17, at 16:20, DePriest, Greg (NBC Universal) wrote:

a) The easiest way to determine how much network traffic is illegal P2P

is to ask a large network operator.  You'll need to sign an NDA and I
encourage you to do so.


44% in the Middle East.  What percentage of those numbers do you think
is scientific data sharing, Linux downloads, or WoW updates?

c)  You might also go to any index site and check out the Top 100

I could not find one piece of content in either group that was not
copyrighted.

It's easiest to turn a blind eye and I hope you won't.

b) You might also think about ipoque's numbers. The company notes that 66% of network traffic in Southern Africa is P2P, 65% in South America, downloads in any category and in the aggregate. Perhaps I missed it but

Lars

I'm not. It's pretty obvious that varying fractions of Internet traffic are illicit, depending on the region, and the sources you point to illustrate this with some datapoints. What those datapoints in my opinion don't support is stating as fact that illicit traffic is - in your words - "the root cause of network congestion today." I wouldn't argue if you had stated it as an hypothesis or a possibility, but it's not a verified fact. (We might also have a terminology mismatch - "congestion" has a pretty precise meaning in the transport community.)

-----Original Message-----

From: alto-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:alto-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of

Lars Eggert
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 4:46 AM
To: DePriest, Greg (NBC Universal)
Cc: alto
Subject: Re: [alto] Adopting two I-Ds as WG documents

Hi,

a)  ipoque GmbH's Internet Study 2008/2009 notes that P2P generates
the most traffic in all regions.

b)  Per an AP story about Sweden's new ipred law dated April 1, 2009:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090403/ap_on_re_eu/eu_sweden_online_piracy_
3

c)  A recent study at Illinois State University in the US found 119k
"likely infringements" in a one-month period (April 2007).

thanks for the pointers! They do illustrate that P2P traffic makes up
a sizeable fraction of Internet traffic in some regions (a), and that
at least some fraction of P2P traffic in some regions is transferring
copyrighted content without permission (b + c).

To me, the conclusions are inescapable:  P2P constitutes the
majority of network traffic and almost all P2P is "sharing" of
copyrighted content without the copyright holders' permission.

I wouldn't feel comfortable making this broad generalization, based on
those three studies alone. (My interpretation is above.) But without
additional data, we could argue about what is accurate forever.

I would like to point out though that none of the three studies say
that illicit content is the root cause of network congestion today
(which was your claim that I responded to). Or, to turn this around,
that network congestion would disappear if the transmission of illicit
content somehow suddenly stopped.

It's clear that some volume of traffic would be removed from the
network if that happened, but whether that volume is sufficient to
alleviate network congestion to some degree depends *a lot* on many
other factors.

Lars

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