Also Sprach Anthony A. D. Talltree:

> >100 gigabyte hard disk is less than $200
>
> Where?  I'm not even aware of a 100G disk being sold.
>

Watch out, 1 TB is just around the corner or at least within the next
2-3 years.

> >while the last check on high capacity tape drives turned up prices exceeding
> >4 times that for maybe a quarter the capacity because advertised tape
> >capacity is compressed capacity.
>
> I think you're kinda missing the point about tape drives.  You see, the
> tapes are *removable*.  You can keep buying new tapes and writing new
> data onto them.
>

The other point is that a tape cartridge is mechanically and
electronically simple compared to a hard drive. You can set up hard disks
in removable bays and swap out rotations just as with tape. ATA hard drive
prices are close to that of tape media prices now. However there are no
disk based jukebox or changer solutions that I'm aware of yet.

In terms of taking up physical space, a half height disk is bit
bigger than 8mm, about the same as 1/4". But I suspect you would
need a stabler physical environment. The Ecrix VXATape I use can
be immersed in hot coffee (actually I used tea), rinsed, and still come
out OK. I don't think any non-mil hard disks can pass that kind
of punishment. A hard disk just has many more parts which can fail.

> >Worse, tapes don't last, they have a three year shelf life if they are stored
> >properly
>
> Say *what*???  This is absurd.
>

If you're using 8mm video cassettes in old 8mm Exabyte 8200 or DAT
audio tapes in old 4mm DDS, perhaps not so absurd.

But modern tape formulations are very sophisticated and have
claimed shelf lives of decades (under simulated aging conditions
of course unless the media companies have access to a quantum
gravity manipulator) and last for thousands to tens of thousands
of passes.

> >and the tape doesn't physically break when it winds around the spools...
>

Freak accidents do happen, and there are such things as defective
cartridges and drives. But my failures with both SCSI (IBM, Seagate,
Quantum, Fujitsu) and IDE (WD, Maxtor, IBM, Seagate) disk have been a lot
more numerous than either failed tape drives or media.

> >Is it possible to configure Amanda to backup to a harddisk or Raid volume
> >instead of a tape?
>

Yes, even in the 2.4.2 series you can do tricks with holding disks and
the reserve parameter. But the 2.4.3 beta series seems to be working
well with disk backups.

> So, you only want to run backups for a couple of days, then forget about
> the whole idea???
>

I assume the strategy would be to have multiple backup sets using hard
disks rather than tape.

> >My last search on tape drives suggested that a high capacity unit that can
> >handle 40 gigs per tape is between $800 and $1000
>
> Seems plausible - they've certain become a lot cheaper than they used to be.
>

Ecrix 8mm is about $800 for 33GB uncompressed, DLT1 about $1100. Travan
and Onstream are also less than $800.

> >I could buy a lot of ATA hard drives for that kinda cash.
>

Around 6 or so 120GB 5400RPM drives which could go into a 600GB RAID 5
or a 360GB RAID 1+0.

> Oh.  ATA.  I thought you were talking about real disks.

That's silly. He's talking about backup and offline storage not
primary or near line storage. For those purposes ATA drives are
quite real and there are commercial vendors selling ATA backup
solutions.

If it weren't for cheap ATA drives the researchers at  Fermilab, Argonne,
Los Alamos, Sandia, NCAR, CERN, LBL, BNL, etc. would have a hard time paying
for collecting and storing the data generated by their experiments and
simulations. Several radiology departments such as U of Utah's use ATA
NAS for storing image data for retrospective studies.

ATA drives won't consitute the media for your data center SAN fabric
anytime soon (but watch out for serial ATA over the next 5 years) but
it most definite has a place right now.

> So when you
> fill up your cheap ATA disk after a few days, then what do you do?  Take
> your machine down so you can spend another couple hundred bucks sticking
> on a new one?
>

I would imagine it is no more difficult than using the RAID controller
management software to take the disk set offline and swap in the
next disk set and bringing it online.

----
C. Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>    GPG Public Key registered at pgp.mit.edu
"Your Pithy Aphorism Here!"      Or finger [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Reply via email to